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Revant Said:
It seems the writer has a grudge against the lower IIM's and a hand of friendship was not enough to satisfy him. An invitation to the campus, and he still finds fault in the entire program at K. Please provide facts for this statement "corporate visitors, management development programmes, industry projects and case studies developed is much worse than some of the second-rung business schools".
AFAIK, the MDP program at IIM K is highly rated and this year has more participants than scores of other "B-Schools".
Prejudice is a dangerous thing to have when one writes in a public domain.
Posted On 8/27/2007 10:55:25 AM
Re: Rohit Said:
A B-School is defined by the quality of students it admits. Batch profile at K includes people with mostly work-ex in top notch companies, graduates from top institutes of the country. The kind of interaction you have with your batchmates is a learning experience in it's own. Coming to the point of resort rather than IIM, the campus is the perfect mix of serene surroundings, high quality infrastructure and a very highly valued academic cirriculum. Had accessibility been such a big issue as the article mentions, it would have surely affected the placements at K. Afterall why would any company take any pains to visit such an inaccessible place (as the writer mentions!!). But then, how do you explan the constant improve in placements year after year both in terms of job profiles offered as well as packages. I am sorry to say but by writing this article, the writer has only shown a very shallow understanding of how B Schools should be evaluated!!
Posted On 8/27/2007 2:16:38 PM
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Revant Said:
It seems the writer has a grudge against the lower IIM's and a hand of friendship was not enough to satisfy him. An invitation to the campus, and he still finds fault in the entire program at K. Please provide facts for this statement "corporate visitors, management development programmes, industry projects and case studies developed is much worse than some of the second-rung business schools".
AFAIK, the MDP program at IIM K is highly rated and this year has more participants than scores of other "B-Schools".
Prejudice is a dangerous thing to have when one writes in a public domain.
Posted On 8/27/2007 10:55:25 AM
Re: Sandeep Said:
Made me wonder if a personal grudge is what the gentleman wanted to splash on a public forum!IIMK's growth story has been phenomenal inspite of the location handicap althought the author wanted to potray a contary picture.IIMs generally prefer not to take part in BSchool ranking owing to the simple reason that the methodology adopted by the numerous ranking tht comes up is highly questionable (well a few of them do put IIPMs in the top 5 :)
Posted On 8/27/2007 2:41:30 PM
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Revant Said:
It seems the writer has a grudge against the lower IIM's and a hand of friendship was not enough to satisfy him. An invitation to the campus, and he still finds fault in the entire program at K. Please provide facts for this statement "corporate visitors, management development programmes, industry projects and case studies developed is much worse than some of the second-rung business schools".
AFAIK, the MDP program at IIM K is highly rated and this year has more participants than scores of other "B-Schools".
Prejudice is a dangerous thing to have when one writes in a public domain.
Posted On 8/27/2007 10:55:25 AM
Re: response Said:
I think everyone knows that the lower 3 IIMs (I,K and L) do not fall in the list of top 10 Indian b-schools. L may just about make it though. The fact that they refuse to participate in surveys is further proof of their own acknowledgement of their lower status.
Posted On 8/27/2007 4:25:48 PM
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Sahil Said:
What do you want .. an IIM helping the city grow or the city helping an IIM grow?
FYI ... the Kerala govt is pursuing an IT park project and six of our students along with faculty are involved it.
Then each student needs to work on one Social Development Project, wokring closely with the state govt/NGO.
True there are difficulties, but that does not mean its a mistake. Your theory is very much placements/corporate oriented, K has proved everyone wrong on this account as well !!
Your theory, not only is false but also looks at an east way to go about it.
"Just because parents have difficulty raising a child it does not make the child a mistake"
Whats next MINT: Raising a child a mistake: Hire a babysitter ??
Posted On 8/27/2007 11:16:27 AM
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Gurumurthy Said:
I fully agree with the writer. We have to put an end to the quota system in all spheres of our activity. We have paid enough for such trivialities in governance. One should see the merit in tha author's logical conclusions than reacting merely on the basis of emotional appeals
Posted On 8/27/2007 11:47:28 AM
Re: Sahil Said:
Quotas ??.... and I thought the article was on locations where IIMs should be setup !
Posted On 8/27/2007 12:47:06 PM
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Gurumurthy Said:
I fully agree with the writer. We have to put an end to the quota system in all spheres of our activity. We have paid enough for such trivialities in governance. One should see the merit in tha author's logical conclusions than reacting merely on the basis of emotional appeals
Posted On 8/27/2007 11:47:28 AM
Re: Vishnu Said:
"Quota system"..i don't think this is the point writer i trying to make. Moreover the issue he is pointing out here is with all indian institutions
not only the three NEW IIMs.
This article is more on perception based rather then supported by the facts and figures, and i am finding it very hard to believe.
Posted On 8/27/2007 1:08:20 PM
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Gurumurthy Said:
I fully agree with the writer. We have to put an end to the quota system in all spheres of our activity. We have paid enough for such trivialities in governance. One should see the merit in tha author's logical conclusions than reacting merely on the basis of emotional appeals
Posted On 8/27/2007 11:47:28 AM
Re: Rohit Said:
What quota system? Is Mr. Gurumurthy in favour of concentrating institutes of national importance in a few states, like the previous government did by converting UoRoorkee into an IIT?
Why shouldn't all states have the benefits of institutes of the stature of an IIT / IIM / AIIMS ?
Posted On 8/27/2007 3:36:18 PM
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Gurumurthy Said:
I fully agree with the writer. We have to put an end to the quota system in all spheres of our activity. We have paid enough for such trivialities in governance. One should see the merit in tha author's logical conclusions than reacting merely on the basis of emotional appeals
Posted On 8/27/2007 11:47:28 AM
Re: Francesco Said:
"Their data of corporate visitors, management development programmes, industry projects and case studies developed is much worse than some of the second-rung business schools."
Sir, would you like to substantiate these statements? Also rather than running an institute ragged you would do the aspiring MBA's a great favor by actually suggesting improvements from your vast experience. Industry interaction is a great term. It has been used so liberally with respect to MBA institutes in India. What is Industry interaction, if I may ask such an inane question to a man of such great credentials? The institute organizes several seminars in an academic year apart from regular talks from the best the industry has to offer. The visiting faculty serves to further cement the industry perspective of the students. Apart from this what other form of industry interaction to A, B or C have? Do the guys studying there go and work in various "industrial hubs" on a part time basis? I guess not. We have our students participating, and winning, all sorts of industry organized events. Big names on campus during placements in now a given. Sir, if the industry does not rate us low on industry interaction how do you?
Visiting faculty we do have at K. And a lot of it. So? That does not mean we suffer in any manner whatsoever. They are the best and they readily answer to any queries that we have at any point of time during our course.
Please do not take a prejudiced view and misguide young aspirants. The pen (figurative as it is more often the keyboard these days) has a lot of power, let us use it wisely.
Sir, please do point out any errors that I may have made above.
Posted On 9/6/2007 4:38:13 PM
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Gurumurthy Said:
I fully agree with the writer. We have to put an end to the quota system in all spheres of our activity. We have paid enough for such trivialities in governance. One should see the merit in tha author's logical conclusions than reacting merely on the basis of emotional appeals
Posted On 8/27/2007 11:47:28 AM
Re: Chandan Said:
Bschools quality is largely defined byt its quality of its student. Mr author just find out and let me know How many students in MDI have better CAT%tile than students in IIM(L,I,K). I am sure the best %tile in MDI would be less than least percentile in IIM-I. ALso please find out how many IITians with good IIT-JEE rank and records join MDI and thyen cmpare it with IIM-I,L,K. "Industry interface","Extra currics" are big words coined by private Bschools to keep them afloat in market. Just find out if Mckinsey will buy your article :).
Posted On 9/15/2008 5:34:03 PM
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Ravinder Said:
Well, for a person like me, who is sitting in Delhi and reading this piece, all I can sense is that the author is a little too possessed with IIM Directors, past and present (and their families), and how they would (supposedly) try to influence rather than be a party to a 'fair' evaluation of B-Schools.
A little too far-fetched!
Posted On 8/27/2007 12:55:11 PM
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Cheetos Said:
Of course. As C-Fore correctly points out MDI is truly a world class MBA college. Much better than three of the IIMs. Especially when the 8 lakhs siphoned from students make way to advertisements in Outlook and the editors of article are taken good care of.
After all its situated in MY Delhi! That alone suffice. Minor trivialities like quality of students and level of academics really count for a petty sum. The weighted average Value calculation really puts a trivial score of such heads.
Afterall the top B-School in the world is SUNY (State University of New York) and not Wharton. You see the reason causing that is the fact that Wharton is in an investment impoverished state of Pennsylvania whereas SUNY is in the Cradle of financial capital of the World, New York!
Thanks to my stars that policy matters are decided by dumb politicians and not smart journos!!
Cheetos.
http://cheetos.wordpress.com
Posted On 8/27/2007 1:00:35 PM
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Manoj Said:
Well, the writer has some points here but looking at the problem broadly would have given him better insights.
-His first point regarding connectivity is more where govt and private airlines have to do something.
- If everything is established in metro, how ll India develop as a country. And was Bangalore as developed when IIMB was set up. Or for that matter IISc. That would mean govt should have set up everything in New Delhi or Mumbai in 60s or 70s because all other cities were not developed.Attrition would be a problem for reasons mentioned, but then that would be a problem in every such small city. That doesn't mean you establish everything in major cities. The whole idea of establishing IIMs in such cities was to develop these areas along with the development of these new IIMs.
- Did you notice that the pristine environs and the quality conditions in Kozhikode and IIMK is actually a huge benefit to students. It is a wonderful place to 'concentrate on studies and management research'.
Posted On 8/27/2007 1:09:12 PM
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Sourav Said:
"Their data of corporate visitors, management development programmes, industry projects and case studies developed is much worse than some of the second-rung business schools...."
Will the author kindly take the trouble of validating this particular allegation with relevant data ??
Posted On 8/27/2007 1:38:47 PM
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Bhupesh Said:
Being someone who, even after 3 years of struggle was not able to make it to an IIM and had to opt for a so called second-rung B school, it pains me to read such biased opinion against an institute which millions strive every year to be a part of (as an integral part of the IIM family).
Fault finding is such an easy job. If we take the example of Stanford university, we can blast the accomplishments of any IIM, even IIM-A, in areas of diversity, industry interaction, foreign students, international exposure and the likes. And all this makes so easy to hide the achievements of these institutes. But this is not what is expected from a writer in a newspaper like mint.
Sure, the writer can argue that the millions of brightest Indian minds who are ready to do anything to get into an IIM, including IIMK, may be foolish. But I speak from personal experience. My family has had a string of IIM passouts. And I feel ashamed when I compare the faculty, facilities and overall learning I am getting compared to what they have got. IIMs are amongst the few good things India has got. The writer should refrain from tarnishing their achievements and credibility through his biased opinion.
Posted On 8/27/2007 1:47:40 PM
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Suresh Said:
The merit of the students in the IIMs(L,I,K) is no worse than those in the other IIMs(A,B,C).More research and analysis into the teaching methods should have been done before making any judgements.
Posted On 8/27/2007 2:10:58 PM
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Ajith Said:
Everyone remembers the outlook surveys where ICFAI Hyd was ahead of 2 IIMs. Author was involved with that also.
Here is a good read on that : http://youthcurry.blogspot.com/2006/09/outlook-b-school-rankings-2006.html
Something is there to connect these right.
The way he writes supports the accusation that he has something against IIM K ,L and I
I respect Mint for whatever it is but, when you publish rubbish like this, better be careful.
Posted On 8/27/2007 2:15:16 PM
Re: Shubhadeep Said:
Looks to be a second rung article sponsored by the second rung B-Schools.
He has no facts to back his rantings. He shows strong prejudice in his writing as well.
LiveMint, this is downright irresponsible journalism! Or is this a forum for individual opinion?
Posted On 9/10/2007 10:52:06 AM
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Kaustubh Said:
Some comments on arguments raised by the author:
1.) First the author talks about building IIMs in metropolitan cities, where it will be easy to find infrastructure to attract good faculty. But then, there is an example of Stanford where the university was instrumental in development of the erstwhile backward area into the silicon valley. Aren't these two points in contradiction?
2.) In the comparison of IIMK with XISS, regarding initiatives towards the upliftment of Dalits, it has been pointed out that the latter can do it more efficiently. Can the author kindly produce data to base this opinion on? In fact, if we consider that like IIMK, if every institute took up an initiative towards social development and upliftment, won't the process be supremely efficent, in its reach and effectiveness?
3.) Regarding the point that setting up IIMK has not helped the students/people of Calicut - on the contrary, a prestigious institute like IIMK can actually put Calicut on the industrial/commercial map of India. In fact, a group of IIMK students are currently working on a project in conjunction with the govt. of Kerala to project Calicut as the next IT destination.
I believe points like these, and many more, raise a serious doubt on the impartiality and fairness of this article.
Posted On 8/27/2007 2:22:21 PM
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surya Said:
How much from ISB as ad revenues? How much from the coffers of "Better than the IIM's" or Amity , some transparency from Livemint about ad-revenue will help the student community.
With a smaller size Livemint obviously needs more ad-revenue per page which they make up with up-selling tier-1 schools as tier-1 school.
Please do check your articles for grammatical inconsistencies before it goes to print.
Posted On 8/27/2007 2:25:09 PM
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Mayank Said:
The writer has judged IIMK on various parameters without giving any substantial proof for them.And to top it he has missed out some parameters which make a good B school.The quality of the students intake also forms an important criteria to judge a B school and all IIMs including K get the best brains of the country.Talking about Faculty the author only delved into the quantity of faculty and didnt hesitate to compare it with second rung B schools but forgot to discuss the quality of faculty avavilable in IIMK which is comparable to the best in India.Therefore I think this article has its fair share of flaws.
Posted On 8/27/2007 2:30:22 PM
Re: Megha Said:
There are some points in this article that I can agree with, and some so inane and irrelevant that I do not find any reason to even think about them. Yes, there is room for improvement at IIMK, and as I student, I will be the first person to admit this. As one of the other comments have pointed out, there is not point in having IIM's in only the metros and tier-I cities, as they are too crowded already.
What is shocking is the biased nature of the article, right from the word go. This raises doubts about the credibility of even what might have been truly the case. A magazine like MINT should not stoop to such low standards that we students have to look elsewhere for reliable and objective content.
Posted On 8/27/2007 2:41:37 PM
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Abhishek Said:
This article manages to find only one good thing about the entire visit to IIM K, the airport and the surroundings. This itself speaks volumes about the kind of analysis performed by the person in question.
I have serious doubts about the "lack of quality in MDP, faculty" issues he has mentioned about the IIM in question, because after all, isn't this what makes an IIM special???
I will attempt to provide some information to the people reading this totally biased report abt this IIM.
1. Industry Interaction is bad - There is a community in IIM K, Industry Interaction Cell, whose sole job is to ensure that the interaction is apt with the targeted industries of the institute
2. Faculty is bad - How will the students learn without faculty? And the placements here are nice... draw the inference urself
3. No of permanent teachers is very less - Report the data about IIM A, B and C when only 10 years had passed since their beginning
4. Connectivity is bad - Yeah, if you want, Kozhikode is drivable distance from bangalore... Why can't people/companies just drive from that place (as flights are totally available in bangalore to any part in India)
All in all, I can continue bashing up the data presented in this case over here.
Location??? It is important, but the most important thing is that it's an IIM. Period.
Posted On 8/27/2007 2:36:59 PM
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Megha Said:
There are some points in this article that I can agree with, and some so inane and irrelevant that I do not find any reason to even think about them. Yes, there is room for improvement at IIMK, and as I student, I will be the first person to admit this. As one of the other comments have pointed out, there is not point in having IIM's in only the metros and tier-I cities, as they are too crowded already.
What is shocking is the biased nature of the article, right from the word go. This raises doubts about the credibility of even what might have been truly the case. A magazine like MINT should not stoop to such low standards that we students have to look elsewhere for reliable and objective content.
Posted On 8/27/2007 2:45:09 PM
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Ravi Said:
It is perhaps not necessary to criticise when a concept (IIM K) is indeed good. Nevertheless, you have chosen the other way but the only pain is that you have not tried to explore the details besides the article reflects too deliberate a stance to malign the image of the institute and the programmes it is running.
Firstly, the Institute is not whole heartedly associated with the Dalit Upliftment projects (Known as Centre for Excellence in collaboration with Kerala State) but it is only the need to associate while infact two age old professors namely Prof. Wilson Mackkaden and Prof. Namboodri only have been involved in the teaching and soft skill training to such students (Unfortunately Prof. Wilson succumbed to an accident two weeks ago). Moreover some interested students (very few) too sometimes on weekends used to spare time out of their busy schedule till last year only to impart some training.Therefore do not consider a very small initiative at such magnitudes so as to colour the entire institute as a social service institute aka social research wing.
Secondly, the non metro and non-industrial location of the Institute does not render the teachings and students capabilities redundant and certainly do not render the institute incapable of attracting and marketing talent.
Thirdly whether you want the industry to come to you or the other way which is the most easier and perhaps would cause all IIMs in Gujarat, Maharashtra and where yourself say only. Meaning every best thing will be a part of the already best. I really feel that yourself may kindly indulge into the practice of evolving a nation and not states and please use such platforms to allow and lead the government resources to an equitable distribution as the present policies are and not confront them unnecessarily which would otherwise lead us to the conclusion that your motives are coloured.
Posted On 8/27/2007 2:45:19 PM
Re: Atul Said:
IIMs can never be social institutes as they are devoid of the spirit of capitalization. As I agree much to above.
Posted On 8/27/2007 2:49:55 PM
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Hitesh Said:
Dear Mr. Premchand Palety,
Please allow me to highlight certain issues which you have tried raising through your article:
1. You wanted our government to make a Resort instead of IIM at Kozhikode.
Sir, this is not possible if you try to understand the market situation. Today our country needs more well trained managers and not resorts, as you feel. These managers help in running organizations such as yours. Please do not be upset on the fact that an educational institute came up at a place where you would have liked to spend your vacation. This environment helps the students concentrate better on their studies and helps them relax under tremendous stress which accompanies such Management programs.
2. You feel that an interface is possible with the industry only if Industry is present around us
Sir, I will like to point out here that you would not have developed such a view if you would have made an effort to collect some factual data before writing your article. Just a trip to IIM K is not sufficient basis for your report.
If you are aware of the companies mentioned in our Recruiters List, which visit IIM K year after year than you might have not compared our Industry Interface to second rung B-Schools. We can provide you this list if you deem necessary. You need not ask for it under the RTI.
3. Taxpayers money will be better utilised if IIMs are setup in Industrial Hubs.
Sir, it seems that you have not been able to comprehend the difficulties faced by the government in acquiring land for such institutes. You can read up any of the cases pertaining to SEZs to understand the concept.
Also, I believe it is impractical to have all the educational institutes to be concentrated at one spot. I hope this point does not need any clarification.
In the end I would like to thank you as you have been able to generate some kind of interest and enthusiasm in our highly stressful Management program
Hitesh Bhagia
Posted On 8/27/2007 2:49:18 PM
Re: Ravi Said:
Agree in Toto.
Posted On 8/27/2007 2:52:41 PM
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Puneet Said:
If location is the criteria for any IIM to do well than the first IIM should have been setup in Mumbai or Delhi and not Ahmedabad.
Yes, connectivity is an issue but is an IIM responsible for it? And as the writer himself said the international airport of Kozhikode is better than the one at Delhi by itself tells the kind of development that is happening in Kozhikode.
Kozhikode city with IIM-K, NIT-C, a medical college and a university of its own has all the ingredients to become the next big thing.With, initatives like IT park in Calicut in the offing this could be achieved sooner than we think.
IIM K hosts 7 major seminars in a year with speakers from all the major companies and cities coming down to the campus.Something which no other B-school can talk about.
Posted On 8/27/2007 3:05:04 PM
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rohit Said:
I think the writer has a very myopic view of things. Despite the location 'disadvantage' (we are connectd by daily DIRECT flights from Delhi, Mumbai, Bangalore, Chennai and Kochi), IIMK has managed to get more than 350 participants EACH for MDPs, FDPs, eMEP and industry seminars, something our illustrious older institutes have not managed yet in so many years of existance. IIMK also attracts speakers from all walks of life, like industry stalwarts, senior politicians, etc, through the seminars organized by Interest Groups in each industry vertical. This leads to a lot of interaction with the outside world. A case in point. We hosted managers from NTPC for an MDP last week. Our HR interest group, HRiday, managed to convince a senior HR person there to interact with the students here to share experiences on how NTPC manages to remain among the list of top employers in the country. If this is not industry interaction, then I do not know what the writer is referring to.
Also, Kozhikode is not alineated from industry, but in a unique location. Industry hubs of Bangalore, Coimbatore and Kochi are a mere 6 hours away by road. Students have to do at least 2 industry projects in the first year itself (OM1 and MM2). The IIMK batch profile (higher work exp compared to other IIMs) also allows a lot of learning from peers who have worked in different industries.
Posted On 8/27/2007 3:12:34 PM
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Rohit Said:
I request Mr. Premchand Malety to come to kampus again (on a direct flight this time) and speak to a cross section of stakeholders, and not just the director.
Judge not a B-school by the quantity of faculty, but by the quality. We have a strict selection criteria, and are happy to say that potential faculty rejected in interviews at IIMK have gained employment in other IIMs who are more desperate for faculty. Visiting faculty, including foreign professors and working professionals, add a lot of value to students which is definitely not possible in a B-school that has mostly internal faculty.
Regarding papers and case studies. It will start coming now, since the FPM program has started and the faculty shortage is being addressed on a war footing.
The writer talks about the Centre of Excellence, but consciously avoids mention of our other Development Projects, like the CITI (Calicut IT Intiative), Malabar Shopping FEstival Project, support to the PT Usha School and SEPT, etc. A team of footballers from rural areas, trained by an organization that is supported by volunteers of IIMK, recently came tops at an international football competition, when our national team continues to languish at the 126 position in the world.
When IIMA was set up, Ahmedabad was in a condition similar to what Kozhikode is currently. The development of the city can thus be accelerated by the setting up of IIMK. This might be the same intention behing setting up the IIM at Shillong. What is the use in locating them near developed cities, where there already exist a number of B-schools, including branches of a particular B-school which claims to be better than one IIM.
Posted On 8/27/2007 3:25:43 PM
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Arindam Said:
Going through the article, I was surprised to see such heading "Lesson from IIMK:.......The newly built airport is very impressive, much better and spacious than the one in Delhi". Is the author trying to analyze the airport or IIMK? If this is the case for IIMK, then this article without any relevant data carries no meaning. This article itself shows the grudge of the author against the 3 IIMS(I,K,L)(may be because of that "uneasy relationship"). Can the author justify his points with relevant data when he comments about "data of corporate visitors, management development programmes, industry projects and case studies developed is much worse than some of the second-rung business schools"? I don't know what led the author to say that "Setting up a B-school in a remote place helps nobody except the contractors of that area" unless and until the author himself come and join this institute and have a taste of the system......rather remote place helps the students concentrate in their studies better in situation of pressure and stress. FYI, IIM C is also located far away from the city...just because of better studies and mainly for such kind of compact management programme.I think articles like this based on nothing but only biaseness should be prevented from publishing in reputed journal like Mint.Period.
Posted On 8/27/2007 3:26:36 PM
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Yash Said:
The writer is correct in pointing out the case, but its the government that is not getting the common sense in its head. I ope that the edu ministry works in tandem with many industries to create clusters - ie SEZ's etc.. near the IIM's if it wants to be sustainable...
Posted On 8/27/2007 3:34:36 PM
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Raging Said:
Dear sir,
I completly rebuff this article.When we think about IIMB which was set up in the year 1973 in bannerghatta road which is 15 km from airpot, what was the rationale in setting up at a farthest distance when many land were availabe close to airport and many industries were also loacted such as HAL,NAL,NGEF???. Bangalore was lucky enough to get so many IT industires thanks to its location and its connectivity which developed gradually. Similarly is the case with Kozhikode, Please give it some time to prove its worth to it nation, infact we are already proving it. And what more that stunns me is the comment "Instead of an IIM, had the government set up a rural management, agribusiness ......" ?? How do you substantiate your claim??? Is IIMK a bad " Investment" ????
Posted On 8/27/2007 3:37:29 PM
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Vishal Said:
There's one thing I can't resist to agree "Had the government set up a resort there instead of an IIM, it would have been an instant success." Thanks to Indian government for setting up an IIM at such place and then thanks to IIMK for giving me an opportunity to sit here and write this comment from the comfort of my room while the view of natural beauty is accessible from the window and door opens up plenty of opportunities.
I can talk about many things what may be subjective (but those things really matter) and a person sitting in Delhi can easily ignore them thinking that I'm talking about them as I like this place as a student and hence I'm bound to appreciate it.
So, lets talk about facts, datas and numbers,
A) Average CAT score of IIMK students is above 99 %ile (A very conservative data for general category intake to be on safer side) which is more than any non-IIM.
B) The average work experience of 190 strong student community is more than 2 years. 90% students have worked for various industrial sectors. (Again more than any non-IIM)
C) A data from the article- About 70% of the faculty pool consists of visiting faculty. Now they have 27 permanent faculty members.
Two observations on that:
i) Visiting faculty = 63. I think its a good number.
ii) IIMK has 360 students and 27 faculty members (Lets consider them only for a moment). Student faculty ratio is less than 14. And that's good for a management institute. Visiting faculty takes this ratio southward to an extent that IIMK stands proudly with its peers, leaving non-IIMs far behind again.
The faculty is alumni of IIMs, IITs and the best ranked institutes of India & abroad.
D) Lets talk about moolah. IIMK was 4th in terms of average salary, which is below only its three peers IIM-A, B & C. 75% of students were placed for more that 10 lacs PA. Please visit www.iimk.ac.in for more details.
This was a comparison on the basis student quality, faculty quality and qualtity and placement scenario.
Posted On 8/27/2007 3:45:55 PM
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Ramesh Said:
Please post the facts substantiating your claims.
Posted On 8/27/2007 4:04:17 PM
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Rohit Said:
Wanted to talk about 4 points.
1) "The taxpayer’s money will be put to better use if the seven new IIMs that the Prime Minister has recently declared are set up near industry hubs." - Except IIM Calcutta, which IIM was set up in an industrial hub? Ahmedabad and Bangalore were probably slightly bigger than Calicut when the IIMs were set up there.
2) "Setting up a B-school in a remote place helps nobody except the contractors of that area." - Calicut is not a remote place. The airport is the busiest in the state. Trade from Calicut to european countries has been going on for more than 500 years. Property rates in the city have shot up in the last 1 year, ever since IIMK got involved in the IT Initiative. All the top recruiters in the country visited IIMK last year, and the average salary at Rs. 12.8 LPA (which was again wrongly reported in the media) was 4th highest in the country after IIMA, B and C.
3) "It’s not like an industry which will suddenly generate jobs in the area." - If the author had looked around the IIMK kampus, he would have seen the hundreds of locals who working there. Kunnamangalam town has benefitted because of retail and service opportunities. ICICI Bank opened up a branch just outside the kampus and Canara Bank will be doing so shortly. If this is not employment generation, then what is?
4) "Even local students are not benefited, as admission is only on the basis of merit." - Even RECs were upgraded to NITs. When there are enough private colleges around, what is the need for region based reservation at institutions of national importance?
Posted On 8/27/2007 4:04:42 PM
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Rohit Said:
"Last year and also this year, I used the Right to Information (RTI) Act for extracting information from them although IIM Ahmedabad (IIM-A) and IIM Bangalore (IIM-B) voluntarily participated." - The IIMs have nothing to hide. But, the media likes to spice things up by creative reporting of the facts. Even top actresses have flaws in their looks which are covered using make up. Why doesn't magazines print close up shots of such people without makeup.
It is sad that senior reporters like Mr. Premchand has fallen for this gimmick. A cursory glance of the editions of leading business magazines will reveal full page ads of non IIM B-schools which have gotten good rankings. Why doesn't Mr. Premchand write about how much he asked the director to pay to write good things about IIMK, and was refused ...
Posted On 8/27/2007 4:15:30 PM
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Rohit Said:
"The attrition rate is high; in last two years, 13 members have left."
Why doesn't the writer meet the 13 profs who left IIMK in the last two years, and find out the REAL reason for their leaving. Am sure it'll be an eye opener for him.
Posted On 8/27/2007 4:33:22 PM
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Raghavendra Said:
We cannot have all the good things in metros and tier one cities. Why does author thinks institutes should be located in the important cities like metros, but not important and prestigious institutes like IIMs should be located in cities other than metros. As far as IIMK is concerned its academic calendar is full of activities that aim towards moulding budding aspiring managers into successful self sustained individuals. Author can have a visit to campus and know in detail what IIMk has to offer to its students. Making judgements based mere fact less issues doesn’t convey the very purpose of institutes like IIMs. Also author can go through the successful 10 years of IIMK and know the pace at which the institute is making progress.
Posted On 8/27/2007 5:35:04 PM
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Rohit Said:
http://www.livemint.com/UserControls/2007/08/27001558/Lesson-from-IIMK-Set-up-new.html
How is it that one of Mr. Palety's clients figures high on b-school surveys conducted by him? Is this a credibility issue or a conflict of interest?
Posted On 8/27/2007 6:07:51 PM
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Ameya Said:
I think the author has an extremely biased opinion about the Next Gen IIMs. The IIMs were setup in these growing cities so that there would be a symbiotic relationship between them. It can be clearly seen form the fact that a new IT hub is being started in Kozhikode with the help of the IIM. Also Kozhikode is an educational center with already an NIT and medical colleges established here.
Coming to the point that there is below par Industry interaction would be a factually wrong thing because the course structure at IIM K requires compulsory interaction with the industries. Also IIM K can boast of having speakers of repute being called through the year for various seminars.
Finally contesting the point of social development, there is a group project as apart of the curriculum for that. Also initiatives take by students often go beyond this.
I sincerely request the author to check his facts before maligning any Institute
Posted On 8/27/2007 6:12:26 PM
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V Said:
Being someone from a low rung IIM.... i completely agree with you
Posted On 8/27/2007 6:33:00 PM
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S Said:
it seems to me that this article is just an attempt by teh author to display his own importance - yes mr palety we get it - you are a very important person who is being chased by directors of management institutes to come down to their campus and spread the dirt around. perhaps a bit of introspection might do a world of good - a b-school grad doesnt become good or bad based on what some journalist at livemint.com thinks, it all depends on how teh student shapes his/her career. btw mr. palety do you feel inferior writing on livemint.com rather than, say, economictimes.com?
Posted On 8/27/2007 6:49:11 PM
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pavas Said:
It is funny to see a person without doinng proper groundwork commenting on IIM's. It seems he has got some real grudge against IIMs. Nice comments dude convert IITs to National Park because there is lot of greenery. Convert IIMs to Social institute because they tried to give back to the society. The problem with such persons are that they havent worked a dime in their life. Eating on government money and doing nothing except for finding faults. It seems there is organiztions called hate the best institute to bring down any center for learning. Buddy you could apply for the directorship there. I am not sure whether your son/daughter found CAT difficult or you yourself were rejected by IIMs. Anyway no hard feelings, you have your mouth and freedom of speech given by constitution. Doesnt matter much how you use it.
Posted On 8/27/2007 6:57:30 PM
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Saurabh Said:
The author in his yet another attempt to show down the IIMs in favor of the private B-Schools, seems to be in too much of a hurry to verify the facts. Maty be he's trying to justify the B-School rankings which he is associated with.
I wonder, he did not qoute the name of the private b-school he had been trying to promote in his previous articles too. It would have made more sense if towards he had not forgot to mention "Sponsored".
One shouldn't be too surprised if the Rankings in the years to come start with the punchline "Dare to....." afterall its all about business.
Posted On 8/27/2007 7:29:20 PM
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S Said:
I think Mr. Palety is more interested in helping the so called "Private Institutes" getting a higher rank which sponsor the particular B-school survey he is associated with.
I believe the author would have no hesitation in saying that Amity's, IIPM's and the MDI's are way above the IIM's. Isn't that right Mr Palety??...after all whoever fills up the pocket is better rite??
Posted On 8/27/2007 8:01:23 PM
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Aniruddha Said:
If by "Finally, my interaction with faculty members and students confirmed what one former director of IIM-K told me" the author questions the quality of students he is welcome to compare the CAT percentiles (with the "assumption" that CAT is one of the toughest exams in the WORLD) and Academic record of students in IIMK and what he considers as "the second rung B-Schools". The very fact that the author chooses to base his opinions about the quality of students on subjective judgements shows one of two things: either he wanted to selectively choose facts to prove his point or he is not competent enough to analyse facts (or data as we call it in the IIMs). Criticisms are always welcome but not unfair ones.
Posted On 8/27/2007 10:59:01 PM
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Yogesh Said:
Well how about this: IIM K had an average package of 12.8 lac,IIM K has grown up to the level of 40+ yr old non-IIM institutes in about 10 yrs flat,IIM K has the highest number of foreign recruitments other than IIM A B & C and if u talk about knowledge,Mr Journalist,why dont u come down and have a discussion on what is and what's not of the three new IIMs.May be if u wrote CAT urself once,u wud've been smart enuf to see that!
Posted On 8/28/2007 1:47:45 AM
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Justin Said:
I agree with the reader on the above fact. IIM K is still a nascent B-school which requires a lot of time and energy to grow up. It is heartening to note that the directors of the institute are trying their best to live up to standards set up by the IIMs, XLRI, FMS etc.
However, the faculty strength of 27 is an eye opener and it is a clear indicator to students not to go by salary figures, when choosing an IIM. This is a clear brand dilutor to the IIM Brand. The government should not allow such schools with below grade infrastructure to use the IIM tag and spoil its reputation.
Posted On 8/28/2007 10:03:51 AM
Re: Puneet Said:
The IIM at Kozhikode is indeed nascent. What needs to be seen however is the progress the institute has made in the 10 years it's been in existence. Where were the IIMs at A, B & C 10 years after they were setup? A comparison anyone?
The point of having IIMs in developed cities isn't close to being the smartest. By this logic, everyone would be studying somewhere in Hauz Khas...
Faculty is a problem for all institutes of repute in the country. If anything, the no. of permanent faculty at IIMK shows the institute's commitment to quality and excellence. Instead of getting some run-of-the-mill faculty, the institute spends a big load of money on getting the best people from the industry and other colleges to train the best minds in the country.
The inane comparisons with ICFAI, IIPM and such colleges only tell us where these surveyors and the money they need is coming from.
Posted On 8/30/2007 1:37:56 AM
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Justin Said:
I agree with the reader on the above fact. IIM K is still a nascent B-school which requires a lot of time and energy to grow up. It is heartening to note that the directors of the institute are trying their best to live up to standards set up by the IIMs, XLRI, FMS etc.
However, the faculty strength of 27 is an eye opener and it is a clear indicator to students not to go by salary figures, when choosing an IIM. This is a clear brand dilutor to the IIM Brand. The government should not allow such schools with below grade infrastructure to use the IIM tag and spoil its reputation.
Posted On 8/28/2007 10:03:51 AM
Re: Joy Said:
Friend it is interesting to know ur point of view. But pls. do some number crunching and a bit of reality check before u write comments in open forum.
First of all, 27 permanent faculty members for a student strength of 350-360 amounts to 12 (aprox) students per faculty member. Again the report mentions that only 30% of the faculty members are permanent. So the figure for the total number of faculty members (permanent + visiting) is nearly 90. That means 360/90 = 4 students per faculty member (permanent + visiting). Harvard as far as I know operates somewhat close to 7.5~8 student:faculty ratio.
Man check out ur basic comprehension and analytical ability. I guess u have not been through the IIM grill (thts wht we call it!!!). Instead of writing out derogatory remarks pls ensure tht u r in right position to comment about these esteemed institutes.
Posted On 9/3/2007 3:02:06 PM
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Justin Said:
I agree with the reader on the above fact. IIM K is still a nascent B-school which requires a lot of time and energy to grow up. It is heartening to note that the directors of the institute are trying their best to live up to standards set up by the IIMs, XLRI, FMS etc.
However, the faculty strength of 27 is an eye opener and it is a clear indicator to students not to go by salary figures, when choosing an IIM. This is a clear brand dilutor to the IIM Brand. The government should not allow such schools with below grade infrastructure to use the IIM tag and spoil its reputation.
Posted On 8/28/2007 10:03:51 AM
Re: Arka Said:
Ha ha ha ....
Dude Justin, where're you from ? IIPM ? and what was your CAT percentile ? any real number between 0 to 37, i guess !!
and yes, just in case you're from IIPM - most of your faculty members are your BSchool superseniors who didn't get placed from the campus and are almost as intelligent & analytical as you are !
Cheers.
Posted On 9/7/2007 2:28:01 AM
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J Said:
Though the author has stated many correct points, the conclusions he has draws are largely wrong. An IIM located in an industrial city like say,
Rourkela would have the same problems that the IIMs at Lucknow, Indore and Kozhikode have.
There are some common reasons why the three new IIMs are not doing as well as the older ones.
1. There is an acute shortage of high-quality management faculty in India. The only reason being that they are, for some reason, poorly paid. This is why I strongly feel that instead of setting up new IIMs, they should expand the existing ones, taking in ten times the number of students if necessary. This is simply economies of scale, something which the policy makers seem least concerned about.
2. All great institutions were built over time. What it needs is visionaries at the helm in the initial years. IIM A had one such leader in Ravi J. Matthai. IIM -K also made great strides in the first few years under Dr. A.H. Karlo (presumably the former director quoted in the article). The newer IIMs require time
to develop. I don't see any reason why given the right kind of support, in time, the IIMs at Lucknow, Kozhikode and Indore can't be right along there - with A, B & C.
3. Reputations of institutions are also built by their Alumni. Whenever IIM A or IIM C is mentioned somewher, the names of Raghuram Rajan and Indira
Nooyi always seem to figure. The newer IIMs, very naturally, have fewer people at the top. XLRI, which is one of the oldest B schools in India have many of their ex-students in high places and hence their reputation in the media is quite good.
Posted On 8/28/2007 1:59:59 PM
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Divyabhanu Said:
The writer certainly has a point of view and it needs to be respected, but some facts have been overlooked. This seems to be a myopic and unwarranted take on a reputable institute of higher learning.
1) Direct Flights from Delhi: Mumbai is the financial hub of India and Bangalore would hold the same for IT. Now, there are direct flights from both these locations. So, all companies that need to be there in an institute of higher learning are present here for placements. Unfortunately, the same companies are missing from the B-school campuses that the author's organization ranked very high on B-school surveys. Interestingly enough, most of these B-schools were in Delhi or Mumbai. Where the connectivity is high!!
2) The Industry interaction that IIM Kozhikode has had over the years has been one of the highest amongst B-schools. Now, IIMK holds 7 seminars across functions like Finance, IT, makreting, Consulting e.t.c. These seminars attract the crème de la crème of the Indian corporate world. There is industry leadership series and other guest lectures that keep happening over the year. Maybe the writer needs to go back and look at similar figures for other campuses.
3) The placement record for IIM kozhikode speaks for itself. With 21 foreign placements, an average job per student ratio of close to 3, average domestic salary of Rs 11.76 lakhs per annum, 160 odd students, if an institute is still a mistake, then maybe the writer needs to do some soul searching. 9.9 out of 10 B-schools with over 30 + years of existence and in places like Delhi and Mumbai cannot boast of such figures.
4) Finally, the author has taken a dig at the visiting faculty model of IIM Kozhikode. Wonderful!! How about writing something about a top B-school located at Hyderabad, which follows a similar model with around 20 permanent faculty. Oh wait!! maybe that is better coz it is sponsored by corporates or coz the proffessors are foreigners..
Points to ponder Sir!!I do Request an ans
Posted On 8/28/2007 3:32:51 PM
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prashant Said:
Because of size limitation I am posting my reply @
http://gunche.blogspot.com/
Should Govt. open an IIM in 2nd tier cities?
Posted On 8/29/2007 1:32:06 PM
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rajesh Said:
The advantage of location comes from two factors, it is easier for company’s top bosses to walk into your institute and it helps during placements for companies who don’t want to take that extra trouble of travel.
But here lies the catch, for what positions do you think would the company be recruiting if it decides not to invest time in recruitment. That is where some difference between commodity and brand comes. When you want to pick up people for important profiles you don’t mind going that extra mile.
Top executives are busy people all right and they can’t spend 2 days just to visit a campus, they might want to spend a few hours at a local institute. The bare minimum that needs to be done is to have same day return flight. Besides most of the IIMs have courses designed and delivered by companies who know the importance of investing in right talent.
Interaction with the company is not limited to presence by a senior executive; an equally important aspect of it is to understand some of the challenges faced by those companies and to work towards solving those issues. We might want to assume that for such initiative being near the head quarters of the company helps. That’s where a wrong assumption is made, a company faces problem where its market is and it will not invite interns for boardroom strategic discussions in the head quarters.
An FMCG typically sends all its management trainees to towns for the first year; if location was so advantageous they should have kept their high profile grads in metros isn’t it? In a remote town they see the real market, that is where the retailers are, that’s where the wholesaler sit, that is where you see a C&F agent. I am sure you will find it easier to convince a mall owner in a small town to explain his retail strategy than you could do in Central mall in a city.
Posted On 8/30/2007 3:28:55 PM
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rajesh Said:
Talk of operations, it would be great doing a six-sigma project in a factory but what do you want to see, a googled report at the end of the day or your own executed project and its impact. An auto component factory in a smaller town is more likely to implement a project suggested by students than an auto major in Detroit. Similarly the real fun is to actually study and suggest improvements for Bus fleet owners operating tourist vehicles, giving a model to local theatre owners to decide when to switch the movie.
Organizational Behavior again is better understood in a non-metro. Just imagine walking into Hyatt in Delhi and asking them to share how they manage conflict in their establishment as compared to asking the same thing in a resort in south India. Knowing the sales force compensation is better dealt with by actually speaking to sales people spread across remote corners and not in the boardroom. You can actually be the part of call center recruitment exercise and understand it better.
It surprises me that there is so much deliberation on location advantage in the era of globalization, had that been true India would not be a shining example of outsourcing model. An institute’s infrastructure is not limited to just computers, laptops and broadband. These are the bare necessities, which every institute fulfills. Students need to be educated on other important infrastructure of campus, which is Knowledge. An IIM, to leave no doubts, ALL the IIMs spend something to the tune of Rs 4 crore on their library (use RTI to get the exact figure if you please) to get access to databases like CMIE, ISI emerging markets, Prowess, Capitaline, Insight etc. I will not be surprised if most non-IIM institutes have not even heard of them.
Posted On 8/30/2007 3:30:15 PM
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ramesh Said:
Talking of RTI is just taking readers for a ride. i wish we could use RTI against this magazine and ask them in details the question they asked and the replies they got from other IIMs.
Posted On 8/30/2007 3:31:27 PM
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Puneet Said:
The IIM at Kozhikode is indeed nascent. What needs to be seen however is the progress the institute has made in the 10 years it's been in existence. Where were the IIMs at A, B & C 10 years after they were setup? A comparison anyone? The point of having IIMs in developed cities isn't close to being the smartest. By this logic, everyone would be studying somewhere in Hauz Khas... Faculty is a problem for all institutes of repute in the country. If anything, the no. of permanent faculty at IIMK shows the institute's commitment to quality and excellence. Instead of getting some run-of-the-mill faculty, the institute spends a big load of money on getting the best people from the industry and other colleges to train the best minds in the country. The inane comparisons with ICFAI, IIPM and such colleges only tell us where these surveyors and the money they need is coming from.
Posted On 8/30/2007 7:44:12 PM
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pratik Said:
It is really interesting to see the writer boasting about using the RTI act for getting information from IIMs.
But for what purpose? Is the information used to give true, unbiased information to IIM aspirants??
Or is it used to confuse students into believing that some second rung B schools are better than IIMs?
And is it just a coincidence that the same private B schools which get an unbelievably good(and at times hillarious) ranking in most of these surveys, spend lakhs of money advertising in the same magazines/websites?
But ask any MBA aspirant in this country- which B school they would chose if they get a call from IIMK and a second rung B school? and you would get your answer.
After all, and thankfully most of India still doesnt dare to dream beyond the IIMs..
Posted On 8/31/2007 12:53:06 AM
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Prasun Said:
Read the article..At best it can be called an ameteurish piece, not supported by facts, and based on personal conjectures. It does not deserve any further comment
Posted On 8/31/2007 2:34:41 PM
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suvo Said:
Can you now please abide by the RTI act and provide facts,figures to support your comment in such a public forum.
Posted On 8/31/2007 5:04:08 PM
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Puneet Said:
I've had the opportunity to study both at IIMK and another B school in gurgaon, consistently in top 10 for years. The writer would be surprised to know that with my experience I've realised that the "top 10" schools are nothing but farce intend on making more & more money. IIMK on the other hand provided not only education but also important life lessons with the opportunity to spend time with a batch & faculty that was rich with industry experience.
Posted On 9/3/2007 2:16:14 PM
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amit Said:
it does make sense but i believe what author has forgotten that these are goverment sponsored institutes and should be seen at with an aim of social cause. Ofcourse there can be better locations but lets SUGGEST locations instead of criticizing the lcoations on which already so much of money and careers are at stake.
Posted On 9/3/2007 5:50:43 PM
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Vipin Said:
For someone who professes a profession prostituting themselves for two penny advertisements, talking about things like RTI & Transparency sounds bit pompous. The case in point is best represented by IIPM. the institute run by father & son dua of Dr Fraud & Dr Ponytail has been running a fraud for years together, but the papers have maintained studied sielence lest the IIPM withdraws it's ads from papers. IIMs are easy targets, especially the three new ones whose alumni hasn't made it to boardrooms where they can put the author's ass on fire for going around publishing canards. If anybody believed the ratings / rankings published by these papers, the pigs would be drinking from taj's fountains.
Posted On 9/4/2007 10:00:27 AM
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rajesh Said:
In the present era of virtual networking, one has the opportunity to interact with anyone wherever present. Unless ofcourse the protagonist cannot cope up with technology. Accepting the fact that the industries are there in Tier I cities, to commute from one vantage point to another, it is likely that one might need to wait for a few hours. So what is the big deal about a few hours more. Most campuses are retained at an offbeat location for serenity and avoiding meaningless distractions, which is infact an advantage.
Posted On 9/5/2007 4:09:53 PM
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Ramesh Said:
Mr Palaty,
Your analysis is excellent. I really admired your article from the point of business man's view. If I am setting up a shop, I will definitely look about return on investment, attrition of employees, revenue, and profit. The article best describes how to rank a profit making organization. But, should we rank a educational institute as par with a business organization. A top tier IS service provided company in Bangalore is having 24% attrition rate as per their financial returns and it is setting up office in some remote place as their margins are not good because location disadvantage of Bangalore as of now. Should we rank it as worst. The same magazines rank the this company as one of the top 5 companies in India. It all depends on PR?. What extra advantage Nalanda or Takshashila were having when the universities were setup thousands of years back. What advantages did Kharaghpur and Kanpur were having when IITs were setup. We should go back to basics on ranking educational institutions. Did you ever thought of learning how well the alumni of IIM K is faring, how satisfied they are with the knowledge they earner, and how satisfied the professors whether they are permanent or visiting. When you visit next time, would you please sit in a class room and listen how the teaching is and how well the students are participating in discussions. There are few things statistical evidence based on money can do, for everything else there is IIM K.
Ramesh
Posted On 9/21/2007 3:06:30 PM
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A Said:
I think Mr Palety could have moderated the tone of the article, because despite its faculty and research related issues, IIMK has still been able to attract quality students because of its brand name. However, there is nothing wrong with Mr Palety's rating methodology - the government body for rating colleges, National Assessment and Accreditation Council, follows a similar model: http://naacindia.org/grading.asp. As far as proximity to industry is concerned, it is indeed important. Institutes like SP Jain and JBIMS benefit from a splendid industry interface (and consequently placements) thanks to their presence in the financial capital of India.
Also, rating an institute higher just because it carries an IIM brand is akin to rating a product solely on the basis of customer perception & company reputation (the classic Unilever vs Henkel debate). If that were to happen, no private institute would be incentivised to beef up research & consultancy activity, as in any case it would be rated lower than an established brand.
Posted On 7/15/2008 1:51:39 PM
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