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SUNDAY, NOVEMBER 08, 2009 3:57 AM IST

Why don’t we worship Brahma? We know he’s part of the Hindu trinity as the creator, but we worship Vishnu, manager of the cosmos, and Shiva, its eventual destroyer. The answer lies not in religion, but in culture. But in what way does our religion shape our culture?

Neglected deity: The Brahma temple at Pushkar. Photograph: Dinodia

Neglected deity: The Brahma temple at Pushkar. Photograph: Dinodia

Max Weber explained the success of capitalism in the US, Germany and Britain as coming from their populations’ Protestant faith. This ethic, or culture, was missing from the Catholic populations of South America, Italy and Spain. Protestants, Weber said, extended Christianity’s message of doing good deeds, to doing work well. Industry and enterprise had an ultimate motive: public good. That explains the philanthropists of the US, from John D. Rockefeller to Andrew Carnegie to Bill Gates.

What explains the behaviour of Indians? What explains the anarchy of our cities? To find out, we must ask how our behaviour is different.

Some characteristics unite Indians. The most visible is our opportunism. One good way to judge a society is to see it in motion. On the road, we observe the opportunism in the behaviour of the Indian driver. Where traffic halts on one side of the road in India, motorists will encroach the oncoming side because there is space available there. If that leads to both sides being blocked, that is fine, as long as we maintain our advantage over people behind us or next to us. This is because the other man cannot be trusted to stay in his place.

The Indian’s instinct is to jump the traffic light if he is convinced that the signal is not policed. If he gets flagged down by the police, his instinct is to bolt. In an accident, his instinct is to flee. Fatal motoring cases in India are a grim record of how the driver ran over people and drove away.

We show the pattern of what is called a Hobbesian society: one in which there is low trust between people. This instinct of me-versus-the-world leads to irrational behaviour, demonstrated when Indians board flights. We form a mob at the entrance, and as the flight is announced, scramble for the plane even though all tickets are numbered. Airlines modify their boarding announcements for Indians taking international flights.

Also Read Aakar’s previous Lounge columns

Our opportunism necessarily means that we do not understand collective good. Indians will litter if they are not policed. Someone else will always pick up the rubbish we throw. Thailand’s toilets are used by as many people as India’s toilets are, but they are likely to be not just clean but spotless. This is because that’s how the users leave them, not the cleaners.

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Rahul Said:


Nicely put, but then just get ready to receive an avalanche of hate mail.

Posted On 7/3/2009 8:41:05 AM
Re: Girdhar Said:


Rahul,pl. don't create fear in the mind of author.It is because of people like you, that people don't like to write constructive criticism.The criticism by author should act as a stimulant for introspection and further improvement of society.

Posted On 7/3/2009 2:55:27 PM
Re: Prs Said:


Exactly, because of people like you India has lost the "Freedom of press" and "Freedom of speech". Who do you think is going to send hate mails ? People who have no basic decency ? or People who think that "oh wait! I cannot make money the way I am making now by literally taking advantage of my country or may be the person who uses this country for his own greedy desires ? Whatever this man has said is 100%, no actually, 200% true. I lived in many places and experienced things this author has exactly mentioned here. Indians will never change and will never even take any effort to change. Have you seen New Jersey ? If you cannot fix your country, at least try to live better in others. I am angered, embarrassed and more petrified with this community and culture. I personally believe that India has entered Malthusian Catastrophe - a return to a subsistence level where population outpaced all agricultural and industrial production. What are we going to do about that. People live in filth. Not only we have overpopulation but we also live in filth and it's just a very dangerous combination. Do you want to see another BLACK DEATH of 1348. We know what that did to Europe in 1350's. An excerpt from the Italian Chronicle from 1350's: "They died by the hundreds, both day and night, and all were thrown in ... ditches and covered with earth. And as soon as those ditches were filled, more were dug. And I, Agnolo di Tura ... buried my five children with my own hands ... And so many died that all believed it was the end of the world." Anyways, bravo! to author. We need more people like this author so at least our grandchildren would have a better life.

Posted On 9/22/2009 11:59:21 PM
Deepak Said:


I do not agree with the author. The author also seems confused whether he wants to discuss giving to society or is frustrated about somebody taking wrong side of the road in India. We have thousands or temples, mosque, and gurudwara, churches all running on donation. Tirupati and sai baba temple are amongst world's highest donation receivers. You see "dharamshalas" to schools, dispensaries being run by the riches of India. We celebrate almost all of our festivals with offering to God and distributing to people in general. We of course do not give hundreds of dollars for converting people as these western countries do. If this what the writer considers giving to society, then probably we are not giving.

Posted On 7/3/2009 9:37:50 AM
Re: Arun Said:


That is what the writer is saying, that what ever charity we Indians do is driven by a motive. Motive that the God will be pleased and give us more, remember how Indian beggars ask for alms "Tum ek lakh dogey, wo dus lakh dega" (If you donate 1 lakh, God will give you ten times), beggars seem to know better of Indian psyche :). Our sense of charity is related to personal good not that of the society. But I would like to differ with writer also, we have tradition of "Gupt Daan", where many western philanthropists brag on a dais that they have pledged $20 billions to a cause. Some of Indians prefer to do a charity silently, selflessly, without any motive or paybacks. We need more of them but for this moment all sorts of charity is welcome. - Arun

Posted On 7/8/2009 10:53:16 AM
Deepak Said:


I do not agree with the author. The author also seems confused whether he wants to discuss giving to society or is frustrated about somebody taking wrong side of the road in India. We have thousands or temples, mosque, and gurudwara, churches all running on donation. Tirupati and sai baba temple are amongst world's highest donation receivers. You see "dharamshalas" to schools, dispensaries being run by the riches of India. We celebrate almost all of our festivals with offering to God and distributing to people in general. We of course do not give hundreds of dollars for converting people as these western countries do. If this what the writer considers giving to society, then probably we are not giving.

Posted On 7/3/2009 9:37:50 AM
Re: Deepak Said:


I dont agree with you mr.deepak. As you said 'We of course do not give hundreds of dollars for converting people as these western countries do. If this what the writer considers giving to society, then probably we are not giving.', it implies that you are thinking that all western countries are Christians. and You are also implying that they all do forced or coerced conversion. Just like I cant say that all the Bajrangis or VHP supporters are violent hooligans who suffer from inferiority religious complex. :)

Posted On 7/16/2009 2:05:51 PM
Deepak Said:


I do not agree with the author. The author also seems confused whether he wants to discuss giving to society or is frustrated about somebody taking wrong side of the road in India. We have thousands or temples, mosque, and gurudwara, churches all running on donation. Tirupati and sai baba temple are amongst world's highest donation receivers. You see "dharamshalas" to schools, dispensaries being run by the riches of India. We celebrate almost all of our festivals with offering to God and distributing to people in general. We of course do not give hundreds of dollars for converting people as these western countries do. If this what the writer considers giving to society, then probably we are not giving.

Posted On 7/3/2009 9:37:50 AM
Re: Ajith Said:


This is called reading between the lines..lol

Posted On 7/23/2009 11:51:38 PM
Deepak Said:


I do not agree with the author. The author also seems confused whether he wants to discuss giving to society or is frustrated about somebody taking wrong side of the road in India. We have thousands or temples, mosque, and gurudwara, churches all running on donation. Tirupati and sai baba temple are amongst world's highest donation receivers. You see "dharamshalas" to schools, dispensaries being run by the riches of India. We celebrate almost all of our festivals with offering to God and distributing to people in general. We of course do not give hundreds of dollars for converting people as these western countries do. If this what the writer considers giving to society, then probably we are not giving.

Posted On 7/3/2009 9:37:50 AM
Re: Prs Said:


DEEPAK, IT SEEMS LIKE YOU HAVE MISPLACED OR STASHED AWAY YOUR COURAGE AND HONESTY TO ACCEPT THESE PROBLEMS. DEFENDING IS THE FIRST STEP TO FAILURE. ACCEPTING YOUR PROBLEMS IS THE FIRST STEP TO IMPROVEMENT. AND NOT ONLY FOR DEEPAK, I SEE THERE ARE SO MANY HERE COMMENTING AND DEFENDING THAT, WHAT WE DO IS RIGHT BY LITERALLY DIVERTING FROM THE TOPIC. TALKING ABOUT UPANISHADS, VEDAS AND OTHER SCRIPTURES. THESE THINGS HAS NEVER HELPED US AND NEVER WILL. WHY? BECAUSE IF YOU CANNOT UNDERSTAND THE VERY SIMPLE THINGS IN LIFE LIKE 'KEEP YOUR SURROUNDINGS CLEAN. USE CONDOMS AND OTHER SIMPLE MEASURES. BE CONSIDERATE. DON'T BACK-STAB. DON'T DEPRIVE OTHERS BECAUSE OF YOUR PERSONAL REASONS' THEN HOW CAN YOU UNDERSTAND THESE COMPLEX SCRIPTURES AND LITERATURES THAT OUT FOREFATHERS HAVE GIVEN US. THIS IS EXACTLY THE KIND OF HIPPOCRACY YOU ARE GOING TO DROWN IN. DO WE HAVE CLEAN STREETS? DO WE HAVE CLEAN WATER ? DO WE HAVE NO HOMELESS PEOPLE ? IS INDIA BEEN TAKEN OFF FROM THE TOP OF THE RABIES LIST ? ETC., ETC., ETC., NO!!! SO YES THIS ARTICLE IS EXACTLY RIGHT AND IN FACT PERFECT. PERIOD!!!! I DON'T THINK YOU UNDERSTOOD THE CRUX OF THE ARTICLE. THE AUTHOR'S POINT WAS NOT TO DISMISS ANY RELIGION. HE WAS MERELY POINTING OUT THE PSYCHOLOGY OF THE PEOPLE INFLUENCED BY THE RELIGION. PLEASE READ BEFORE COMMENTING. THIS SELFISH, SELF-CENTERED, GREEDY, INCONSIDERATE, "DEPRIVATION-OF-OTHERS-FOR-YOUR-BENEFITS" ATTITUDE IS EXACTLY WHAT THE AUTHOR IS POINTING OUT. MANY EUROPEAN COUNTRIES CONSIDER THE ABOVE CHARACTERISTICS AS THE PLAGUES OF A HEALTHY SOCIETY. AND HURRAH!!! WE HAVE ALL OF THEM IN ONE PLACE. OH! WHAT A BOON. SO PLEASE STOP DIVERTING FROM THE TOPIC BY MENTIONING THAT PEOPLE IN INDIA DO DONATE FOR GOOD REASONS AND OTHER NON-SENSE LIKE THAT. BECAUSE, IT IS A NON-SENSE!!. A MERE EYEWASH TO MISDIRECT PEOPLE.

Posted On 9/23/2009 12:44:06 AM
Deepak Said:


I do not agree with the author. The author also seems confused whether he wants to discuss giving to society or is frustrated about somebody taking wrong side of the road in India. We have thousands or temples, mosque, and gurudwara, churches all running on donation. Tirupati and sai baba temple are amongst world's highest donation receivers. You see "dharamshalas" to schools, dispensaries being run by the riches of India. We celebrate almost all of our festivals with offering to God and distributing to people in general. We of course do not give hundreds of dollars for converting people as these western countries do. If this what the writer considers giving to society, then probably we are not giving.

Posted On 7/3/2009 9:37:50 AM
Re: Umesh Said:


‘An article every Indian should read!’ This is what made me read this article. I appreciate the examples mentioned by the author. He has managed well to point out on certain characteristics of an typical Indian man. However this fellow went one step further to find the roots of this Indian mentality & eventually he stopped at Hinduism. This is something I could not ignore. Let me make it clear that I am not a hardcore religious person. I am a common man, Even I get upset sometimes when I think about the current situation of our country. The motive of this reply is to clear certain religion related misunderstandings of the author. There is nothing personal. Is this truly how we are? What do you think? An article every Indian should read! Why Indians don't give back to society By Aakar Patel, Mint, July 4, 2009 Some characteristics unite Indians. The most visible is our opportunism Why don't we worship Brahma? We know he's part of the Hindu trinity as the creator, but we worship Vishnu, manager of the cosmos, and Shiva, its eventual destroyer. The answer lies not in religion, but in culture. But in what way does our religion shape our culture? Wrong !!!! the answer lies in religion itself. As per hindu religion, Bramha who is the creator has still not left the earth. He is present in form of knowledge within us. Vishnu & Shiva came to earth and have completed their respective tasks and got Mukta. But Bramha’s tasks are not yet finished. He is the creator and is present inside us in form of knowledge. Worshipping Bramha is like worshipping Our ownself. The author shows his lack of knowledge about Hinduism itself and therefore is making such statements about it. Next time I Would suggest author to do his homework well before maligning any religion. What explains the behaviour of Indians? What explains the anarchy of our cities? To find out, we must ask how our behaviour is different. Some characteristics unite Indians. The most

Posted On 9/25/2009 6:35:34 PM
Deepak Said:


I do not agree with the author. The author also seems confused whether he wants to discuss giving to society or is frustrated about somebody taking wrong side of the road in India. We have thousands or temples, mosque, and gurudwara, churches all running on donation. Tirupati and sai baba temple are amongst world's highest donation receivers. You see "dharamshalas" to schools, dispensaries being run by the riches of India. We celebrate almost all of our festivals with offering to God and distributing to people in general. We of course do not give hundreds of dollars for converting people as these western countries do. If this what the writer considers giving to society, then probably we are not giving.

Posted On 7/3/2009 9:37:50 AM
Re: Umesh Said:


‘An article every Indian should read!’ This is what made me read this article. I appreciate the examples mentioned by the author. He has managed well to point out on certain characteristics of an typical Indian man. However this fellow went one step further to find the roots of this Indian mentality & eventually he stopped at Hinduism. This is something I could not ignore. Let me make it clear that I am not a hardcore religious person. I am a common man, Even I get upset sometimes when I think about the current situation of our country. The motive of this reply is to clear certain religion related misunderstandings of the author. There is nothing personal. As per hindu religion, Bramha who is the creator has still not left the earth. He is present in form of knowledge within us. Vishnu & Shiva came to earth and have completed their respective tasks and got Mukta. But Bramha’s tasks are not yet finished. He is the creator and is present inside us in form of knowledge. Worshipping Bramha is like worshipping Our ownself. The author shows his lack of knowledge about Hinduism itself and therefore is making such statements about it. Next time I Would suggest author to do his homework well before maligning any religion. The traffic problem does not happen in the western countries because there is no population problem neither is there any traffic problem. Is writer trying to link our behavior at a traffic signal to our religion ? Moreover, there is no traffic problem even in India outside the metropolitan cities like Mumbai, Delhi, Kolkota, & Chennai. Also note that these are the cities where there is highest majority of non hindu population. God knows where on the earth the author learnt that the world is a rotten place. In fact as per Hinduism, it is said that the world is most beautiful creation of lord Bramha. Hinduism says that one should seek mukti from the worldly things. Do good deeds and seek Moksha. Moksha is getting relieved from the pain

Posted On 9/25/2009 6:40:31 PM
Deepak Said:


I do not agree with the author. The author also seems confused whether he wants to discuss giving to society or is frustrated about somebody taking wrong side of the road in India. We have thousands or temples, mosque, and gurudwara, churches all running on donation. Tirupati and sai baba temple are amongst world's highest donation receivers. You see "dharamshalas" to schools, dispensaries being run by the riches of India. We celebrate almost all of our festivals with offering to God and distributing to people in general. We of course do not give hundreds of dollars for converting people as these western countries do. If this what the writer considers giving to society, then probably we are not giving.

Posted On 7/3/2009 9:37:50 AM
Re: Ana Said:


Among us Indians some quietly carry on: Way out in the boonies, Gorakhpur is a town in north east UP which happens to be my hometown. Here I have seen my father who is now 80 years of age, is certified blind and keeps bad health yet his daily activities require average of 16 hours a day for few hours in meditation and prayers, community service involving education, civic issues, his law practice and as a mentor. As an adult he along with his peers among family and few in society have practiced " service above self". With every year they increased amount of their 'Time' and portion of 'Income' set aside for charity". Both my parents actively dedicated life for 'others' in family and society. e.g. for benefit of rural and urban poor organizing of eye operation camps, polio vaccination, distribution of calipers etc. etc. These efforts were not just one off events but were implemented as sustainable projects and reached the grassroots of one of the poorest and most densely populated areas in India for last fifty years. My parents and others ( and their collaborators) did not self promote or gloat about such activities or of their 'personal' reasons to do what they did. This is a case of a simple man and a woman and their simple life. Ever since I was a child I have seen their efforts to be really hard work which required most of their time, energy and sometimes all their money. I see their efforts and influence continuing still For my life, I too live a simple life ( in quite and private ) . I pray to Brahma. It is my conscious being ( in my heart and soul ). It is what I know as 'right and just'. It dictates how I spend my resources on daily basis. Unfortunately, I live outside of India as a working professional while here I continue to 'try' to best use my most precious commodity : " my time". I try not to be wasteful, do not drive -instead use car pool etc. Mentor youth by imparting my skills and life experience. CONTINUED in next post as part 2.

Posted On 10/26/2009 2:01:43 PM
Deepak Said:


I do not agree with the author. The author also seems confused whether he wants to discuss giving to society or is frustrated about somebody taking wrong side of the road in India. We have thousands or temples, mosque, and gurudwara, churches all running on donation. Tirupati and sai baba temple are amongst world's highest donation receivers. You see "dharamshalas" to schools, dispensaries being run by the riches of India. We celebrate almost all of our festivals with offering to God and distributing to people in general. We of course do not give hundreds of dollars for converting people as these western countries do. If this what the writer considers giving to society, then probably we are not giving.

Posted On 7/3/2009 9:37:50 AM
Re: Ana Said:


Manay Continues as part 2... When in India, I take trains and try best to walk, pick litter outside my compound and quietly influence my neighbors to do the same. I never bribe or participate in goonda politics ( using non-cooperation) I criticize everything I find 'wrong' ( share my knowledge of creative options) yet I try and try to do something constructive each day I am there. I am convinced that I will be able to find and implement at least one sustainable solution in Gorakhpur, my hometown where I come from. It maybe in areas of sustainable agriculture, education, sanitation, gender issues etc. Another NRI neighbor, who dons khadi and eats simple, is a doctor who walks miles to slums daily to provide vaccinations and basic medicines for free, imparts basic education etc. He takes out time each year for a few months to be in Gorakhpur. However these are examples of solo / individual actions efforts not affiliated to 'any' organization. My question is : do we need to publicize about this to validate our self worth as cultural elite? condemn a civic society as morally bankrupt or corrupt governance ? or just attempt to live life as any other ' responsible educated and civilized' human regardless of our nationality, race or creed?

Posted On 10/26/2009 2:03:40 PM
Sonu Said:


What a beautiful, sensible and well written article Aakar - so true of the way we are. Clearly reflects the several attitudes that we have gained of being selfish, self-centered, have money/muscle - can do anything and get away and lastly What's in it for ME'. Even God is not spared by us today!

Posted On 7/3/2009 10:28:29 AM
R Said:


Excellent. A very nicely written article analyzing some our our problems from a sociological perspective. Me and one of my friends had long discussions about this. We wondered why only white countries are so called the "First World". Yes, you might say that they colonized and plundered, but then again if India did that, we would have a few very rich individuals. America on the other hand itself was a colony, so were small counties like Denmark and Finland. The Indian corporates are prime examples of this, they charge customers $3000 for a service but are reluctant to give $1000 to the working employee. We have it ingrained in us to accumulate as much as possible, coz maybe our parents told us that bad times can come anytime so be prepared, make the most of now. We can lie, steal or do anything to earn a 100 rupees. If you don't believe me take a trip to Nehru Place or Palika Bazaar in Delhi. On the higher end look at our builders, corporates and politicans. I have always said, religion can make a lot of things right. Not just being a Sunday Christian or a Tuesday Hindu but actually doing the right thing when you step out of the Church, Mosque or Temple. Most of the First world is turning to atheism these days, yet they still follow the principle of "think about others or the repercussions of what you do" before doing anything.

Posted On 7/3/2009 11:00:17 AM
Re: Vivek Said:


It is very interesting article. I saw your reply and there are some facts but I think I have slightly different take on it. My opinion does not condone Indian behavior. I am in US since last 16 years and very much involved with Christian churches and people. I think it has much more to do than religion. Here are some of my observations: 1) In West, they do not necessarily think about their children in terms of future like college education, buying cars, paying for their car insurance, marriage expenditure, spending money to look after your elders and so on. At age 18+, children are out of the house. Whereas in India, a person has responsility to provide for his kids school/college, marriage, care for elders. A govt servant cannot have another job/or income so no other source of income. If they are found of doing so they can loose their govt job. How do you expect a desk clerk who makes 4/5K per month to do all that is listed above. So they resort to undesired means like bribery, doing something to earn that extra money. We do give that's why you can see millions of beggars around the country. 2) I am not sure about Indian tax laws for charity work but in US, charity donations gets tax deductions. That's why big corporations would reduce salary of their employees but they will continue to donate money for tax purposes. 3) In India, we have very few handful charitable organizations that you can trust for good work. So when people can't how their money is being utilized, they wouldn't donate. No wonder Gurdwaras have money overflowing because they use it on food at their gurdwaras. 4) We have lot of industrialists who donate and have donated their wealth. Example is Birlas, Tatas, Bajajs, Godrej. All these are KHANDAANI RAESE. Ambanis are just pure businessmen, they do not have family history of being philanthropists. Vinoba Bhave had donated all his real-estate. Do we do enough,not really.Change is coming as people become more aware.Let us do our part

Posted On 8/14/2009 11:04:13 PM
R Said:


Excellent. A very nicely written article analyzing some our our problems from a sociological perspective. Me and one of my friends had long discussions about this. We wondered why only white countries are so called the "First World". Yes, you might say that they colonized and plundered, but then again if India did that, we would have a few very rich individuals. America on the other hand itself was a colony, so were small counties like Denmark and Finland. The Indian corporates are prime examples of this, they charge customers $3000 for a service but are reluctant to give $1000 to the working employee. We have it ingrained in us to accumulate as much as possible, coz maybe our parents told us that bad times can come anytime so be prepared, make the most of now. We can lie, steal or do anything to earn a 100 rupees. If you don't believe me take a trip to Nehru Place or Palika Bazaar in Delhi. On the higher end look at our builders, corporates and politicans. I have always said, religion can make a lot of things right. Not just being a Sunday Christian or a Tuesday Hindu but actually doing the right thing when you step out of the Church, Mosque or Temple. Most of the First world is turning to atheism these days, yet they still follow the principle of "think about others or the repercussions of what you do" before doing anything.

Posted On 7/3/2009 11:00:17 AM
Re: Vivek Said:


Continuation from my earlier reply. A very very important factor that we do not keep in mind while criticizing Indian behavior is insecure future. In most of the western countries, America, Australia to name few; you will notice that government provides retirement benefits like Social Security, Medicare etc in US, when a person has so secure future, he/she need not worry so much how they will spend their retirement, generally children pay for their own marriage, live their own life without expecting anything from their kids. I am not saying that we should do this in India because every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

Posted On 8/15/2009 3:05:03 AM
Nikhil Said:


Interesting comparison!. However, we as hindus belive "life" as sacred hence every living being, whether be a wandering cows on the streets. We had karna, one of the big philonthropist. I really like ur analogy of driving and boaridng the plane...that has something to do with "raj" system that we had since 1947. I recall standing in long que to pay electricity bill, get ration sugar, etc. etc. so, we tend to rush. I am sure, kids born in late 90s won't rush. Again, as you mentioned correctly, we tend to have mai, mera pariwar concept, hence, never give. One of CEO's of Top IT firm donated $5 mill to Yale school in US, as his kids are studying there. That donation would have been more beneficial to millions of rural schools in india. I can write long and long, but couldn't agree more with you. I leave with optimism that, the philonthropist Indian is broned here and he will be greatest philonthropist of all in 2050....

Posted On 7/3/2009 11:39:58 AM
Akshat Said:


Although I agree with most of the things that you have mentioned in your article, like the opportunist behavior of Indians and all. However, I do not agree to the fact that Indians do not give back to society. For example corporate houses like Tatas and Birlas have given back to society in a big way. Also many alumni from IITs and IIMs have given handsome donations to their alma mater for establishing new interdisciplinary schools, funded research and provided scholarships to many needy students. Moreover, if you go to any holy place in India, you will find there are lot of rest houses (dharamshalas) built by people which charge either no money or very little money. Therefore we can not generalize this theory and can not say that Indians do not give back to society. And as far as opportunism is concerned, yes it is sad but true that Indians are like that. I don't justify it but then the fact is that it is more about survival in this country than anything else.

Posted On 7/3/2009 12:00:50 PM
Prasanna Said:


A nice article would be too small a salutation but words they say are poor messengers.But i request this to be read,understood and acted upon since these point to a deeper thought just ignored on a day to day basis though we know it!!!

Posted On 7/3/2009 12:04:41 PM
arvind Said:


I think it all comes down to what are the stakes involved..We are rarely are late for a very critcal job interview,even if it means starting half an hour earlier than the travel time warrants..but in other situations....20 30 minutes late is perfectly normal.If the consequences are minor...we tend to throw caution to the winds and push our luck..hoping the traffic signal will not be policied. Now it may be very possible that Mukesh Amabani's daughter truly deserved to be Head girl of her school but I think,as a leading light of Indian industry Mr Mukesh Ambani himself should have prevailed upon the school authorities to put the process of selection above board,maybe by making the students themselves elect the head girl..instead of one of his minions taking a decision on a matter like this.

Posted On 7/3/2009 12:07:33 PM
Vivek Said:


And your point is?

Posted On 7/3/2009 12:19:12 PM
matt Said:


Simply superb. That's a wonderful observation -- can't imagine how anyone could intellectually disagree with it.

Posted On 7/3/2009 12:23:55 PM
Swami Said:


"We do not think stealing from the state is a bad thing" A small correction .. we do not think stealing is a bad thing. Period.

Posted On 7/3/2009 12:25:02 PM
Vijay Said:


Wonderful article. Time for we Indians to digest this and cahnge our selfish views.

Posted On 7/3/2009 12:27:14 PM
Santosh Said:


Interesting, your observations though not popular makes one think WHY WE ARE WHERE WE ARE? what would you suggest is the solution to the problem we face?

Posted On 7/3/2009 12:27:48 PM
Vijay Said:


High time we move from selfish ways to be more humane. If we had considered all lives equal we would not have allowed 20,000 people die in our neighbouring country few months ago.

Posted On 7/3/2009 12:36:05 PM
Bhaskar Said:


Very Sad.. but very true. Can we change? At least lets act to change the course for our children.

Posted On 7/3/2009 12:52:08 PM
rakesh Said:


Nice article,but the things are so obvious.I mean these things are so true that i dont expect any hate mail.democracy is an align concept to us Indians having lived as slaves for centuries.In fact we should not also look toward the religion coz we go to temples only to beg and never to thank what we have got.In fact its a horrible state and as a society we are fast disintegrating.And funnily enough whenever someone points the shortcomings to members of society,he is labelled anti-social.Remember how people were saying that movies like slumdog.. are a conspiracy to show india negatively.But every street in India resembles the one in the movie,and it was a gruesome reminder to put ourselves in place.One more example I'd like to give is how we treat cows,an important animal from religious point of view.I have no hesitation in saying that for us the importance of religion is not even equivalent to tissue papaers.

Posted On 7/3/2009 1:25:41 PM
Manish Said:


I appreciate the convincing style in the article. I also agree with the fact of opportunistic attitude. But what I fail to understand is that this represent India. I have travlled to lenght and breadth of India right from Punjab to Tamil Nadu from Bihar to Maharashtra. You know what is evident? It is the India struglling for the basics . It is the India finding hard to gather drinking water where at the same time people in urban land is planning to put up new swiming pool. This state of tolerant and helping people has been transformed by the foreign rulers into an state of opportunistic people. They made sure when they leave India they leave it in such hands which will maitain this character so that they can reap benefits. As an indian how can you forget that this was a land of people who believed in Duty. It is wriiten in Gita and practiced for almost pre british era " Karmane Vadhika raste ,Ma faleshu kadachina...." Thy shall perform his duty without expecting any fruits or results. The India which you have potrayed is Urban India . I suggest you come and visit rural India where the trust still exists .Where people will offer you food irrespective of your relegion and their poverty. I know this will not last long as the urban greed is taking its toll and will gallop the society very soon. The core of knowledge doesnot lie in stating what it is ,it lies in saying why it is so. This is more important in a society which has transformed in few years. regards

Posted On 7/3/2009 2:19:38 PM
Re: N Said:


I totally agree with Manish's view......Though your article is good, it is very much visible that u have done only half research......and put all the blame on religion, Infact I think you dont understand religion at all......Have you read any of the puranas, if u have u must have known the reason given for not worshipping Brahma, just assuming things in your own way, will not work, atleast for hinduism, because its a vast and beautifully complicated religion, but if u understand its true nature and why certain things are suggested, then you will realise how simple it is.....anyways M not going into Religion war......But while mentioning about Hindus, how did u forget That Bangladesh is one of the dirtiest country and it has Hindus as minorities...........same is the truth with China........Because Maintaining cleanliness does not depend on religion but it depends on the Population.... Some People (read Westerners) told you that your Religion is Filthy just the way they tell poor Tribals that our Religion is Demonic, and you have seem to believe them........ You have full right to believe what you want to cause you are a Hindu and Hinduism gives you the freedom........but please dont spread wrong things without knowing the whole truth

Posted On 7/7/2009 10:48:21 AM
DVader Said:


Kudos for this exemplary article Aakar! However,you forgot to add that Hinduism is solely responsible for Global Warming [Worshipping Cows -> Not slaughtering them -> Greater Methane emission -> Global Warming].Now if only we could pin the entire Terrorism thingy on them....

Posted On 7/3/2009 2:55:10 PM
charvi Said:


ridiculous! this article doesnt have any focus. i am wondering how can philantrophy be confused with opportunism. are bill gates, warren buffet less opportunist? very sad!wasted my time

Posted On 7/3/2009 4:10:12 PM
Prasad Said:


Over-simplification sir, tch tch got it wrong! You should be saying most Indians are NOT Hindus in the true sense. Our Upanishads and Vedas lay stress in an individual being a contributor and never a bhoktha- an enjoyer. A grihastha should do pancha maha yagnas throughout your life which includes daanam and contribution to the life forms and ecology. It is a sin to eat alone without sharing your lunch! Also you may not be aware that Hindu scriptures lay stress that a daanam should be done completely un-announced unlike it is in the rest of the world, left hand should not know what the right hand has donated! It is a sin to gloat on helping the needy. Most poor Indians happily partake their food with complete strangers if their door is knocked, unannounced - the poor especially. Indian charity is not done through trusts and endowments and significant part is done completely anonymously. You should ask how many housemaids get their children's education funded by their employers. Ask Hospitals what kind of response they get when an ad is placed to help a kidney transplant patient. All this is done off record. Well if you want Western type of charity, then do understand it is also for ensuring more mileage for their business empires too. I wish to stop, all the best...

Posted On 7/3/2009 4:14:24 PM
Ram Said:


It is an interesting theory put forward by the author. However, I feel that the reason for Indians not giving back to the society is not faith or religion, rather the lack of it. Over the years, Indians have veered away from true faith and have become materialistic to an extent that they do not see any wrong in depriving someone in order to line their pockets. The road behaviour is an extension of this. A charitable explanation of this is that the Indians are insecure and to an extent this behaviour is seen in underdeveloped or so-called emerging countries as well. If people shed the tendency to lord over everything and not try to own everything, it will start manifesting in charity and helping the less privileged in society. This should be in a true sense. Let me explain. Our educational institutions are typically run by trusts, several of them owned by politicans. These institutions are not run like trusts but as means for making money for the politicans. If people develop true faith and follow the religion closely, India would be a much better place to live.

Posted On 7/3/2009 4:47:39 PM
Vidyadhar Said:


Excellent Article. I often observed this phenomena at Airport. When we Indians are in less numbers at Departure gate, every one obliged to announcement. Moment we see Air India flight with majority Indians, Everyone tried to stand in front, as if first few people will be seated in Buisness class.

Posted On 7/3/2009 4:53:32 PM
Tara Said:


Well analyzed.

Posted On 7/3/2009 5:38:36 PM
H Said:


Interesting article that definitely makes one think and ponder. I do believe that parts of the article especially the first section does make sense but overall I think the author’s theory does have a number of holes in it. Firstly, there are a number of Indians who do give back to the society but it is not publicized. Just as everywhere else, there are a number of philanthropists and their contributions that we do hear about such as Azim Premji, Narayan Murthy, Tatas, etc and an even larger number that work behind the scenes such as Sachin Tendulkar. Secondly, I agree with the author that we as Indians are a Hobbesian society, but as stated by the very same theorist, Thomas Hobbes, this is for humans in general and not a society in particular. It does not seem to happen in economically well-off societies such as the United States and Western Europe as much as compared to economically impoverished societies such as India, but it does happen everywhere. The current economic crises is a perfect example of the Hobbesian nature of the banks, mortgage lenders, securitization firms, brokers, Madoffs, insurance companies like AIG and SEC officials that exist in the United States. Having said this, religion does not seem to play a big role as the author seems to be suggesting. Other societies such as those in Pakistan and Bangladesh show very similar traits such as shown by us here in India, however dissimilar we want to be from them. However, those societies predominately follow Islam. Same goes for many countries in the African continent and other parts of Asia whether they follow Christianity, Islam, Bhuddhism or Hinduism. .... contd

Posted On 7/3/2009 5:56:22 PM
H Said:


Furthermore, his argument that Hinduism mentions that the world is a rotten place is not true. Nowhere in Hinduism, does it say that God has to be placated to get what you want. In fact one could argue that Christianity would fit his argument because when one submits to God and asks for forgiveness ones sins are forgiven and the person can enter heaven. So one could do whatever one wants in the world and then ask for forgiveness. Similarly, for Islam which is has resulted in the extremist views that have bread terrorism. My point is not that one religion is better than the others, but that none of them promote or are a cause of what the author is getting at. In fact, it is the people that interpret religion use them for their own Hobbesian ends. An example of this is this article itself. Hinduism interpreted by the author to fit his definition, but one that could be completely unrecognizable to someone else.

Posted On 7/3/2009 5:57:38 PM
R Said:


Very rightly said!! but is there any way to change the status quo!! because this opportunism is also reflected in the way we elect our corrupt ministers.the basis is is he from my caste/religion and will do more for it etc etc all non-merit issues which have nothing to do with the improvement of the collective whole of the country!! Respect for fellow Indians is even more apparent when you go abroad!!Problems in India are likely to stay where they are until we learn to start respecting our fellow Indians and probably be a little more patriotic!!

Posted On 7/3/2009 6:15:06 PM
Ashu Said:


C’mon, you cannot generalize this thing as an Indian phenomenon … “we Indians” need policing to be disciplined is such a shallow statement…because there is nothing “Indian” about this phenomenon...this is every human’s tendency. If you think west is self-disciplined and all…it is all crap. You can always see that the exorbitant fines for every single rule broken are the ONLY deterrent for US (insert any other developed country) folks too…infact, I saw “policing” in its true sense only in US for the first time…They have 100 times more rules and 100 times more police ..and more importantly for 1/100th of the population there!! So for example, even minor deviations from traffic rules can have very serious repercussions…your rating goes down, you wont get insurance, etc etc.. So, my point is that you cannot say “Indians need policing” and “Indians don't give back”…it ain’t that simple!

Posted On 7/3/2009 6:23:12 PM
wilson Said:


well written and totally relevant article. I am a indian living in USA for the past 9 years and i can totally see the comparsion you made between india and west. g

Posted On 7/3/2009 6:32:12 PM
mad Said:


Very interesting peace. I've often wondered how is it that Indians don't have a conscience, in the sense, why do we always need a policeman to tell us what to do? It does not depend on education or economic status, as even rich, highly educated people act like brutes.

Posted On 7/3/2009 6:47:59 PM
Pradeep Said:


Hi Aakar, Here the problem is not the Hinduism,it is the influence of some other culture.The same Hinduism is giving the message 'Lokah Samastha Sukhino Bahavanthu'-so how could you single out hinduism. Opportunism is not only in India it is in all over the world in one or other form.Why Mr.Bush attacked Iraq?did he find anything there as he said ?? Like Buffett and Bill Gates there are many Indians who have given away their wealth and all to the needy people. Gandhiji is one of the greatest example.Just look at Albert Einstein added, "Generations to come will scarce believe that such a one as this ever in flesh and blood walked upon this earth." -- so it is not the Great Hindu culture that making the problem.......................

Posted On 7/3/2009 6:48:44 PM
SID Said:


keep logic at home...watch d movie destress urself...and PLZ PLZ PLZ do not crib like typical losers which shows signs of jealousy or hatred towards an individual.. if u find flaws,do mention dat but DONT JUST CRIB 4 D HECK OF IT...

Posted On 7/3/2009 9:17:53 PM
akki Said:


Its my humble request that rather dan venting out ur frustration in everyday normal life by passing silly comments, its better to focus on ur work and carve a niche 4 urself....of course u may not be as successful and famous as AKKI but u can try 2 max possible extent...!!!! and yea..dont forget 2 watch KAMBAKKHT ISHQ..irrespective of flop or hit...i m damn sure AAM JUNTA doesn’t look 4 ART HOUSE cinema...had dat been d case parzania or black friday would have made records...not SINGH IS KINNG or WELCOME......KAMBAKKHT ISHQ is made to entertain us..NOT TO GIVE US an opportunity to simply write off hard work by writing few silly comments...even my maid who has been learning english can do this pretty well...!!! and to those who wanna criticise it badly, this is not the section...u better wait for naseeruddin shah movies and comment provided the fact that u really love quality cinema and r not simply ANTI-AKKI its a COMPLETE PAISA VASOOL 4 aam junta...a mad cap ENTERTAINER.... It is Big, Bold, Bindaas Brand Akshay Kumar at its best,and yea, if u r really art loving person rather than just tryng to show ur knowledge on hindi cinema by writing off such a huge venture, i would advise u not to watch the movie...rather sit back at home and get couple of dvds like parzania or khuda kay liye

Posted On 7/3/2009 9:22:25 PM
sid Said:


Its my humble request that rather dan venting out ur frustration in everyday normal life by passing silly comments, its better to focus on ur work and carve a niche 4 urself....of course u may not be as successful and famous as AKKI but u can try 2 max possible extent...!!!! and yea..dont forget 2 watch KAMBAKKHT ISHQ..irrespective of flop or hit...i m damn sure AAM JUNTA doesn’t look 4 ART HOUSE cinema...had dat been d case parzania or black friday would have made records...not SINGH IS KINNG or WELCOME......KAMBAKKHT ISHQ is made to entertain us..NOT TO GIVE US an opportunity to simply write off hard work by writing few silly comments...even my maid who has been learning english can do this pretty well...!!! and to those who wanna criticise it badly, this is not the section...u better wait for naseeruddin shah movies and comment provided the fact that u really love quality cinema and r not simply ANTI-AKKI its a COMPLETE PAISA VASOOL 4 aam junta...a mad cap ENTERTAINER.... It is Big, Bold, Bindaas Brand Akshay Kumar at its best,and yea, if u r really art loving person rather than just tryng to show ur knowledge on hindi cinema by writing off such a huge venture, i would advise u not to watch the movie...rather sit back at home and get couple of dvds like parzania or khuda kay liye

Posted On 7/3/2009 9:46:35 PM
anuraag Said:


Hey all, Kambakth Ishq...One more copy from south movie, released in telugu in 2002 by name "bramhachari", where the lead role is played by Kamal Hassan. That was really good. i don t understand why the people from bollywood who have down look towards south movies always copies old south movies. One should understand that stars don t matter in making good movies only good actors....if such a wonderful production house is there in south, we would have given a big film. Now time for south movies to show off..."Magadheera" coming soon will create history in indian cinema.

Posted On 7/3/2009 11:36:04 PM
odhora Said:


I could guess this would be the cheapest movie of hindi film history just looking at one conversation between akshay/kareena! still this would be box-office hit, thats so pity!

Posted On 7/3/2009 11:40:23 PM
vineet Said:


Re: Girdhar Said: well said Girdhar ....i agree .!

Posted On 7/3/2009 11:40:58 PM
Sriram Said:


Very thoughtful article though he has viwed such a complex entity as hinduism narrowly. The psychology of not worshipping Brahma is well touched. Hinduism has undergone many layers of misconstrued interpretation. This is the reason why even today Women are not given their due in India.Thousands of years back we had such women intellectauls like Gargi questioning Yagnyavalkya on equal footing.People at some point in our history developed some sort of insecurity from Women and started modifying and interpreting religion to suit male domination and they made it as our culture. Look at how even Ganesha is worshipped today. You find him like a gatekeeper in all house holds on the main doors, Cross roads, entrance of functions/receptions. We expect him to take all the hurdles and leave us with clean and good. This is the mind set we have even towards gods. We expect returns and our worship is a sort of investment in him. Our hypocricy knows no bounds. We scream that our religion is hurt when we find some countries are using Pictures of Ram and Krishna on foot wears where as we are ok to use Ganesha and Krishna on Beedies and throwing the pictures on streets. It is as though as are allowed to demean ourselves but others cant' do the same. Main problem with our culture (modified culture) is we are do not want to face the reality. We want to avoid it to suit our wishes at any cost. Another problem is we are not individuals on our own right. We somehow want to take advantage of some sort of groupism. It could be north / South india or Karnataka Vs TamilNadu or within a state one caste vs the other. By raising these identities we want to shut people who pose uncomfortable situation for us. A case in point is when the lok Ayukta was acused of targetting a particular caste even in spite of getting caught red handed while taking bribe. We believe in others making sacrifices for the society. When it comes to our turn , we give sermons for not doing it.

Posted On 7/4/2009 1:35:20 PM
Abhinna Said:


I feel this "opportunism" came in our nature due to our population. Rather then using their own thinking, people feel comfortable with mob. And when they remain unsatisfied, as a part of crowd, they dont hesitate to step out of the box,even if thats unethical.

Posted On 7/4/2009 6:18:00 PM
Akshay Said:


I am amazed at the lack of logic by which this argument is made. If the conclusion of the author is that protestants are more successful due to their religious beliefs, by that standard Protestants in every country should be demonstrably better-off materially, even in India. Now, I have not seen any data that suggests that. Probably, certain religions do better above a certain latitude - Might be theory about cold weather there! Lets try to approach it from a single country historically i.e. have protestants been always 'givers' throughout the history of a country? And take US as an example, does anyone know of a great philanthropist before 1850s? What do you think happened - did the protestants show a sudden upsurge of 'giving back to society'? So whether you look at cross-country or single-country across time - the hypothesis that a certain religion has a greater tendency to give back does not hold. So what might explain both these? Has the author bothered to look at Per Capita income i.e. money in your pocket? Might becoming richer on-an-average result in the society having more number of rich people each of whom feels comfortable enough to give to charity without feeling poor? That would explain both why in India protestants are not as giving as those in US and similarly in US only after 1850s did big philanthropy take place i.e. in the era of riches due to industrialization. Coming back to India and more generally Hindus - the big issue for the hustling and pushing/ shoving is because we are still very poor and resources are extremely scarce and most Indians (80% are hindus and hence define the avg. Indian) don't have the luxury of thinking about giving. Remember, giving is the luxury of the well-off - when I have a Million dollars, I can give $10,000 without feeling too poor, but not when I have only $20,000. Therefore, rather than putting a religion angle to it, a simpler explanation is India's poverty. Did the author, think of comparing two

Posted On 7/4/2009 11:58:17 PM
Jaspreet Said:


I feel the writer's observation is spot on.The religion of the majority of the people has a bearing on the society as a whole.The values of charity and collective good comes from the religion itself.I congratulate the writer in citing appropriate examples of religion where offerinfs are made to swing God's blessings towards you."Your Gain is sumone's loss and world is what it is" attitude of the people develops essentially from the religion. Writer has talked about Hindu religion here which is the religion of the majority of Indians.Now,writer could have compared other religions also but that would have amounted to entering disputed territory but the writer's job is such that which requires going against the notion. Now let me cite an example in that regard(not meaning offence to anyone).In Sikhism,it is required from a true sikh to offer 10% of his earnings to the poor and needy.Also,self sacrifice for others even if it is for other religion has been the foundation of sikhism.This translates into people thinking not just about themselves but society as a whole also.This may be the reason where you could see Sikhs are over represented in the Army.Well this is just a point in case where religion influences the society.

Posted On 7/5/2009 3:10:00 AM
Sundeep Said:


This is perhaps the most incisive commentary i have read in years on us. Everything fits to the tee. Our behavior at public places is an apt metaphor to the kind of people we are. And you can see it everyplace-a railway station to restaurant to a hospital to a supposedly "up-society" setting. We will show a shameless disregard to a fellow Indian without batting an eyelid. Additionally, It is the inherent part of our culture to copy rather than create, that's perhaps why we are happy being the service providers to the world and our utility will be outrun simply when someone else emerges as a cheaper alternative. In that, I think its a thing to notice and ponder as to why culturally, we have left our Brahma.

Posted On 7/5/2009 9:33:13 AM
gulzar Said:


Aakar, this is a thought provoking article, I really like the summary insight 'why don't we worship lord brahma?' But I believe if we observe our rural life we may realise that giving back to society as a community is widely preached and practiced , what's missing is giving back to society as a nation, as a human. In general we lag behind in our evolution as a nation and the need to rediscover our identity as human soul.

Posted On 7/5/2009 12:31:46 PM
Suraj Said:


This is a brilliant article and i love Aakar Patel articles . I am an Indian and always been trying to find the reason behind Indian behaviour and not yet succeded. But , this article has given me the answers . But , however as much i agree about the other people's views that temples , dharamshalas offer services like rest rooome etc for free or very little money , but they contribute a small percentage of sciety . Unfortunately , Indians do not practice their religions properly . ( an example is about the ram temple issue - not one hindutuva activist has stopped and thinked what will will Lord Sri Ram do if he was here.Would he build the temple and fight against the muslims or resort to more peaceful solution ) Thanks for the brilliant article.

Posted On 7/5/2009 6:59:30 PM
Gautam Said:


Not that Indians do not give back to the society..there are likes of N.R.Narayana Murthy whoose contributed significant amount of his shares of Infosys to charity,there is Mr.Nandan Nilekani whoose contributied a large sum of money to IIT,Mumbai.There are good people in India,the point is there are only a 'Few Good Men' India wants more..

Posted On 7/5/2009 7:58:23 PM
manju Said:


AAKAR NO DOUBT HAS CAPTURED THE INDIAN PSYCHE BUT IT IS INCORRECT TO GENERALIZE IT TOO. THE REACTION OF GENERAL PUBLIC IS MORE TOWARDS THE GOVERNING RULES. IN PLACES WHERE LITTERING IS PUNISHABLE AND ENFORCED STRICTLY, NO ONE TRIES TO COMMIT THAT CRIME--BE IT AN INDIAN OR A SINGAPOREAN OR RUSSIAN. PROBLEM WITH US IS A ``LACK OF CIVIC SENSE'' WHICH PERCOLATES DOWN TO OUR SOCIAL BEHAVIOURS INCLUDING HOW WE DRIVE. LOOK AT WHAT THE BUDGET ANNOUNCEMENTS TODAY...HOW IS THE GOVERNMENT THINKING FOR THE COUNTRY, THE GENERAL PUBLIC IN SUCH TIMES OF FINANCIAL STRESS. THIS HAS BEEN THE CASE FOR SO MANY YEARS WHEN A COMMON MAN HAS BEEN IGNORED ..IGNORED AND IGNORED ...THAT IS WHY AT THE END OF THE DAY EVERYONE IN INDIA FIRST THINGS ABOUT HIMSELF AND THEN EVERYTHING ELSE ... WHAT WE SHOULD DO IS INCULCATE A SENSE OF RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE COUNTRY, SOCIETY, STATE, NEIGHBHOURS ETC... AND, IT IS ALSO INCORRECT TO SAY WE DO NOT WORSHIP BRAHMA ...AAKAR MUST BRUSH UP HIS KNOWLEDGE MORE ....

Posted On 7/6/2009 12:11:55 PM
Victor Said:


We don't give cause we are attached to our wealth, as it is newly accumulated wealth. As development continues and society becomes more civilized, more Indians will follow the detachment and wisdom of Gates, Buffet and Narayanmurthi. We spoil our kids by giving them too much money as we think that shows our love for them. Our Gita, has taught detachment throughout ages but we will learn to practice better. Years of foreign rule and exploitation has made us forget our basics but it will come back soon. Not to worry - East or West, India is and will remain the best.

Posted On 7/6/2009 12:26:53 PM
ganesh Said:


another thing typical abt Indians..is the our natural inclination to judge and critique others...which is evident from the number of comments posted here..hehe

Posted On 7/6/2009 1:43:19 PM
karma Said:


Dear Writer, I will not try to defend what you have written but only try to put things in perspective. The current picture you have put of India and West has not been always. We know of Indus civilization the oldest and most advanced, we also know of wild-wild west or barbaric Europeans. The old indian relics have treasured many secrets of life which have been deciphered overe a period of time by knowledgeable people around the world and learnt.With the reference to your interperations on either hindus worshipping Brahma or Indian inclined towards spirituality reflects your knowledge of Hindu religion. Unfortunately you are using this good medium only spread worng and one sided opinions. If you see people taking worng side taking traffic, you fail to forget they are small percentage of the population, majority still wants to abide by law. With more then 50% of polulation living under poverty and we percentage trying to live up the values of good citizens, things are surely tough. With more responsibile and informed citizens like you will make the difference and bring the change in society. With the society as diverse as India on basis of langauge, religion etc. its a challenge still India will shine through, because of its spirit to embrace all good as well as bed. Be proud of what you are be aware of the ills , then only you can cure but an all out critic will only make you a mentally sick man who hates all and love nobody. Search for war crimes, holocaust etc, you will not find many Indians but agree many blogs saying they are dirty , smelly and selfish people.

Posted On 7/6/2009 2:21:40 PM
Joel Said:


The perception of the author during the entire blog in constrained to the upper income class...The usage of the term society is a afflix.IF we smear this para the society is defined only as the upper income group...All statements are comparisons of how the society has contributed materialistically but it needs to be noted that the phantasmagoria of the author does not understand the implications of life and its contribution to nature without being materialistic.

Posted On 7/6/2009 2:33:58 PM
Rahul Said:


Re: Giridhar Sorry could not reply earlier, coz of weekend. Let me make myself clear. I am not advocating writing hate mail to the author. All I said is the article is nicely put ( I have reservations over some points, but overall I agree with authors views) but it will be misconstrued as an attack on Hinduism and then hate mail will start flowing. But then again running through the comments I see muted reaction, may be we are maturing towards agreeing to disagree in a civil fashion.

Posted On 7/6/2009 3:47:05 PM
Subbarao Said:


The author, although his observations about traffic etc are correct he is wrong in ascribing as to what causes the Indian to behave the way they do with the Indian/Hindu ethos. Lot of the behaviors of Indians can be explained by the their experience of being colonized or living under a fief-dom, or in a corrupt socialistic "maay-baap sircar" set up. Being resident of USA and having raised children in USA I can say with authority that those examples Mr. Patel quotes are a function of the scarcity mentality, insecurity and lack of certainty and not GENETIC. In any large city like Los Angeles if there is a traffic jam on the freeway 99% will follow the rules but the 1% who brake the law have a decent chance being caught and punished. It that certainty that if you brake the law sooner than later you will have to pay for it that keeps the would be law braker on the straight. Since the author thinks that protestant ethos helps USA succeed as a capitalist country THEN what makes their Wall Street spawn events like the recent financial meltdown or the Enron scandal. Mr. Patel over simplifies causes of human/Indian behavior, people have spent life time trying to understand it. Having said that there is no reason for Indians to be more responsible and caring for others.

Posted On 7/6/2009 7:56:28 PM
Rashmi Said:


Very well said Aaakar Patel. This is exactly what we need to do from time to time - really look in the mirror. However, Brahma is worshipped - the Brahm Kumaris they have a spectacular temple in Rajasthan dedicated to Brahma In Dehra Dun I have seen the Brahma Kumari Ashram proudly boasts a big hoarding of Allen Solly/Peter England board...looks strange, but that's just the way we are in India I guess.

Posted On 7/7/2009 12:19:12 PM
Prashant Said:


Nice article; I gather the part mentioning Brahma the creator is to try and ask why we do not worship the creator in terms of divinity or in life. As far as life is concerned , I for one do not know the answer, but in case of Brahma, he was cursed never to be worshipped by Shiva, for having fostered in his mind an incestuous infatuation for his own daughter Sndhya albeit under the spell of Kamdeva's arrows !!!

Posted On 7/7/2009 7:26:59 PM
Stephen Said:


All Indians are alike. There is no religion conflict at all. If anybody is looking at it from the religion point of view it is really absurd.

Posted On 7/7/2009 8:55:58 PM
Indranil Said:


Wonderful description of Indian behaviour. Even CK Prhalad in his book provided a sneak peek into why Indian's bribe. However, I think these characteristics are shared by most developing countries.. with time I wish these things change..as we are already seeing a marked shift in a certain segment

Posted On 7/7/2009 8:57:41 PM
Prakash Said:


As the volume of feedback indicates,apparently, a lot of people are busy with their cell-phones, Blackberrys and text messaging responding with cute, studied and vitriolic responses to someone who is pointing some serious and very real flaws in our national character. I'm afraid, it appears that the real reason why we Indians do not participate in charity or charitable acts is that we are spectators and talkers, not doers. We are kibbitzers and not opinion and action provoking leaders. We are managers and delegaters not managees and delegatees. We are busy lamenting about the difficulties of someone else's dream. And of course, we have the glorious tradition of our great philosophy and religion and the glories of the India that was to help us along. Debate and argument is sexy but does not produce results. The need for the moment is actions, not more talk. And more thought provoking articles that spur us into action. My cell phone just ran out of juice!

Posted On 7/8/2009 12:37:48 AM
Pawanraj Said:


Dear Aakar, I really like reading your articles and your previous ones have been as thought provoking as this one. However, this time I felt you went a bit over board in your opinion. I think first of all branding all Indians as same is a mistake as we come from diverse cultures and history. Secondly, It is also crazy to think that religion makes us behave in a certain way, when there is really no code of conduct in ours. Thirdly, while we have give importance to KARMA and after life, we also understand that there is a Swarg, and a Nark. I also believe that Indians give back. This is done in deeds and money. So many of us involved in social activities is a strong point in case. While there is a Mukesh Amabani splurgiing there is a Narayan Murthy, Dr. Reddy, Tatas, etc. doing a lot for the society. There are many programs run by so many corporates before even CSR was brought in. Even if we go with your idea of Indians not giving back to the society, the reason that comes to mind is more historical and resources related than religion. We have always faced scarcity and oppression. So those in the que feel that they will not get what they are there for. When in the line for the airline, we are looking for the extra space in the over loft luggage space (we do not travel light and try and save that extra baggage fee). At the same time, those in the power - from peon in a government office to the cop at a concert to the immigration clerk we are throwing our weight around because of series of oppression on our generations. They are giving back what they got from our hierarchical society. I think this issue is much more complicated and needs more serious attention than just blaming it on religion. Indian middle class is just evolving and as we mature as travellers, as concert goers and realise (over a couple of generations) that we will get it even if we are patient...we will learn to give back more and more. Cheers!

Posted On 7/8/2009 8:06:59 AM
Mukund Said:


What the HELL are you talking about? if you can see philanthropism in US!!! I don't understand why you fail to see the same in INDIA? I was literally shocked to see this article I'm sorry Mr.Author,but try to find the root cause of the US Financial debacle you know the difference between being INDAINESS & the American greediness which pulled everyone into Recession. Well if you can see oppurtunism in INDIA.. thats because of lack of proper effective leadership. It is because of our culture that we are what we are today. Remember! we didn't lost our culture when we were invaded, harrassed and in colonial rule for over a century.That is the greatness of HINDUISM which baffled many Westerners. Mind you! "The grass on the other side always looks greener" Have pride in being an INDIAN. JAI HIND.

Posted On 7/8/2009 10:39:01 AM
Sam Said:


I dont agree with the article. Indians do give back to the society - its just thats we are really bad in marketing what we do - be it yoga or even the kamasutra - the west knows how to package old age stuff and sell it!! and they do it really well!!! Also, the people mentioned by the author are all high profiled people - who anyway get a lot of media attention - so even if they do something small its going to be a big deal. TATA's, Birlas Ambanis do their bit also ...and so many other too.

Posted On 7/8/2009 11:01:23 AM
Amit Said:


Aakar, the fact that Indians, as a people, do not give a lot back is debatable. There are countless Indians who give back a lot of money that they earn and there are countless Americans who do not. Many informed readers have already given examples. What I'm worried more about is the loose way in which you have chosen to frame your argument. Religion and culture might play a role in deciding people's behavior, but they are not always the most important ones, and seldom the only ones. As you rightly said, people are driven by incentives. I would like to add that the more immediate these incentives are, the heavier is the impact. But the truth is that this is true for all societies, and all kinds of life-forms including humans, so your deductions about Indians are at best myopic. You have been tempted to think that low trust among people or a lack of concern for the 'common good', comes as a direct consequence of the way Hindus worship. You even seem to believe that a Hindu's relation with God is 'transactional'. To this, I would only say that either you have chosen to treat a religion very flippantly, or you do not understand it at all. The main reason why some Indians, and a lot others, behave the way they do is because of the paucity of the resources available to them. Unfortunately, for many Indians, it takes a lot of effort even to earn just enough to sustain their families. Social security is non-existant, and unless you run fast enough to outrun others in the race for life, you will soon realise that all the doors seem to close on you. When you consider this, and you consider the plight of children forced to sleep on empty stomachs almost every day as their parents work hard to make ends meet, you would realise that it is not entirely indecent to believe that the society has not done its bit for you. And that's what manifests itself in some of the behaviour you have observed. And of course, religion has nothing to do with it.

Posted On 7/8/2009 1:26:49 PM
Re: Amit Said:


Allow me to digress as you have, from the question of 'giving back' to opportunism among Indians. It is still not clear how being an opportunist can restrain you from giving back to the people in need. Perhaps, you might want to study the life history of Bill Gates, one of the greatest philanthropist in your eyes, to clear your thoughts on this. As you say, one good way to judge a society is to see it in motion. Indeed, in metros, where Indians have had the good fortune to witness economic development, one can see encouraging signs, as 'opportunist' people patiently wait for their turn in immaculate lines outside ATM's and in department stores. Aakar, I'm afraid that your claim, as well as the explanation for the same is not convincing. I would rest my case by citing the example of the Tata family of India,which donates upto 14 percent of its annual net profits to philanthropic causes, and recently were recipients of the Carnegie Medal of Philanthropy. PS: Not all Indians are Hindus, atleast be politically correct when writing articles for wide circulation.

Posted On 7/9/2009 5:51:41 PM
Rahul Said:


Hello Aakar Patel, This is completed false statement which you have wrote for indians I you are taking few examples which says that indian has wrong faith that its wrong I can give you many more big reason which can prove that indian are 1000 % up then any one in the world and whole world has to belive this. So pls not don't take abt indian societies. Because india culture and societies are much much above your thoughs.So don't miss guide people by publising such a waste information

Posted On 7/8/2009 1:52:46 PM
Mango Said:


Perhaps the normal behavior of indian could be attributed to the large population and limited resources (today's India..) And as far as culture is concern this also the land where devotion and sacrifice are part of culure.Also a land where jainism and buddhism originated where people use leave each and every desire and attachment life offers. It use to be some place where duty was more than religion and society and humanity was much above self.And if was so then why is the Mata worshiped all across India?? Is mother not your origin ?? where we all get our lives from??.....

Posted On 7/8/2009 3:03:21 PM
Anurag Said:


"Vasudhaiva Kutumbakam"- The philosophy of the whole world being our home used to govern this ancient society. culture, custom and religion are held responsible for our opportunistic behaviour, this view definitely needs a more comprehensive coverage of the whole indian diaspora of current era and the philosophies which used to be prevalent in our past. Firstly, talking about facts Brahma is not worshipped not because we indians are opportunist but for the reason he married his own creation (his daughter Saraswati: and that disgraces him from the reverence of being creator) check out with indian mythological epics and this fact is very clear. So it's not our opportunism but our moral sense which is reponsible for this and which has been passed on to us by our forefathers.Opportunism and Adaption are putting at par with each other, how!!! Gaining Independence in 1947: From a nation which had to bear the pain of division, massacre of millions,challenge of large scale development of huge masses, lack of basic necessities and infrastructure to Fourth largest and strongest armed force in the world, among the elite group of nations which have the caliber of sophisticated satellite launching and one of the fastest growing economy inspite of number of bans put on us by US-led pro-west world when we conducted the nuke test to show our will and still the outcome is evident and does not need an explaination for indiant talent, giving back to society and all the allegations being put up here. The basic problem is not of we being opportunistic because we have a large number of high spirited self motivated indians leaving the handsom 6-digit intial salaries for the work in NGOs and working on grass-root level to bring the change, the requirement lies in reflecting that change on larger scale which requires our collective efforts which certainly doesn't come by censuring the religion, custom and culture,though apathy of certain section of society towards the rest is alarming.

Posted On 7/8/2009 3:53:52 PM
satyendra Said:


You have given a fine analysis of the problem. But what is the solution? My reply would be proper education. I quote Swami Vivekananda: "Education is not the amount of information that is put into your brain and runs riot there, undigested all your life. We must have life-building, man-making, character-making assimilation of ideas. The ideal therefore is that we must have the whole education of our country, spiritual and secular, in our own hands, and it must be on national lines, through national methods, as far as possible."

Posted On 7/8/2009 5:07:59 PM
SC Said:


Indians are giving back to the society much more than his capacity. It is only people like Mr.Akar Patel who should disclose what they are giving back to the society and how? If Mr. Akar Patel is ignorant about Indian way of giving back to the society it is his fault. Yes, he has a point when he points to Mr. Mukesh Ambani establishing a school where he charges fees. It is very said but he does not represent the Indians. But unknown Indians have established countless hospitals, schools, dharamshalas, wells and baolis, animals and birds hospitals in their villages and towns and tourist places. These Indians are countless who have done a lot more than Mr. Akar Patel did. But these people did not give their names for being noticed by Mr. Akar Patel.

Posted On 7/8/2009 5:13:36 PM
the Said:


Now that u appreciate what big filthy law-violating, world-bashing and regressive bunch of losers we Indians are, I do hope u will pick up the nearest broom n start sweeping the dirty streets of India. I also hope that at unmanned traffic signals u will volunteer ur esteemed ass for the service of the nation and flash red n green lights manually. I would also want u to adopt the poorest orphan u will see today and nurture him, educate him with the non-memorising techniques so that he fails to spell his name but becomes the next bill gates by divine intervention(n then he can take u along to ur dream country). My reasoning is simple - the wisest should rule the state. In any other scenario I dont feel obliged enough to follow rules. Yes, may be that sets us apart - we r not the ones who wud be happy chasing the herds. You endorse a certain culture where they had a cult all the members of which committed suicide when one comet passed in the vicinity of earth ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heaven's_Gate_(religious_group) ) . All this so that they could take a shortcut to heaven. Thank God we Hindus dont seek heavens! Ur statements, every one of them can be outrightly refuted. But I would rather sum my feeling up with the following verse from Gita - 'hato va prapyase swargam, jitvo va bhokshase mahim tasmaat utthistha kaunteya, yudhhay kritnischay' (Slain u will get the heavens, win and U will rule this earth, Therefore O Arjuna, stand up and Fight...) So u see Mr aakar...Gita itself endorses heaven, glorifies earth and exhorts to fight.... Aakar, aapke vichaar atyachaar karte hain...

Posted On 7/8/2009 5:31:55 PM
Naresh Said:


Whatever your name is .... I pity your conscience son. You are capable of criticizing a 3 year old child's selfishness without realizing that he will be different after 5 years. No other country on the earth was ever looted like people looted India. They never had a chance to ask for justice. Those who tried to were brutally murdered. So, this fear has made so many people ignorant in our country. And always remember that transformation is a time bound phenomena ....Nothing can change over night. You need to be patient and take one step at a time. Otherwise .. be like an american/german/etc in India and experience what happens ... but I will try to be an Indian and help my people get rid of their ignorance. You will keep on criticizing all your life ... I will make my country atleast a little better place to live in. God bless you. Naresh

Posted On 7/8/2009 8:56:32 PM
Amit Said:


[Contd from my last comment] Allow me to digress as you have, from the question of 'giving back' to opportunism among Indians. It is still not clear how being an opportunist can restrain you from giving back to the people in need. Perhaps, you might want to study the life history of Bill Gates, one of the greatest philanthropist in your eyes, to clear your thoughts on this. As you say, one good way to judge a society is to see it in motion. Indeed, in metros, where Indians have had the good fortune to witness economic development, one can see encouraging signs, as 'opportunist' people patiently wait for their turn in immaculate lines outside ATM's and in department stores. Aakar, I'm afraid that your claim, as well as the explanation for the same is not convincing. I would rest my case by citing the example of the Tata family of India,which donates upto 14 percent of its annual net profits to philanthropic causes, and recently were recipients of the Carnegie Medal of Philanthropy. PS: Not all Indians are Hindus, atleast be politically correct when writing articles for wide circulation.

Posted On 7/9/2009 12:27:31 AM
Manohar Said:


Aakar, Excellent article! Please seriously consider turning this into a mini-series. You are very observant and clearly have more to offer. I look forward to hearing more. Please!

Posted On 7/9/2009 5:51:51 AM
Amit Said:


Allow me to digress as you have, from the question of 'giving back' to opportunism among Indians. It is still not clear how being an opportunist can restrain you from giving back to the people in need. Perhaps, you might want to study the life history of Bill Gates, one of the greatest philanthropist in your eyes, to clear your thoughts on this. As you say, one good way to judge a society is to see it in motion. Indeed, in metros, where Indians have had the good fortune to witness economic development, one can see encouraging signs, as 'opportunist' people patiently wait for their turn in immaculate lines outside ATM's and in department stores. Aakar, I'm afraid that your claim, as well as the explanation for the same is not convincing. I would rest my case by citing the example of the Tata family of India,which donates upto 14 percent of its annual net profits to philanthropic causes, and recently were recipients of the Carnegie Medal of Philanthropy. PS: Not all Indians are Hindus, atleast be politically correct when writing articles for wide circulation.

Posted On 7/9/2009 1:34:11 PM
Niswarth Said:


Dear Mr Patel, do a small experiment .. place 50 rats in a cage .. drop a piece of "some thing to eat" .. watch what they do Opportunism is but a product of the inherent struggle an Indian (or any one SURVIVING as a part of huge population, where resources are limited) has to go through every moment in his life .. yes there is a tendency of "save your a** first". its nothing to do with religion .. just human behaviour in such circumstances

Posted On 7/9/2009 1:37:48 PM
ernest Said:


most of the comments r so defensive...we r who we are,we hoard,most of my gods just cannot live without jewels,gold,mukuts so r out temples.And OO LA LA we are laden with olyumpic gold medals...we cant run fast for a medal there but we like overtaking,jumping lights,we donate corporates donate but my Ganga is a sewer,my gau mata is feeding on the dung heap her stomach full of half eaten plastic lifafas and this guy says it is karma.The fact is villages are still clean and our cities...we dirty our localities,cities,roads but behave when we r holidaying on foreign shores.Come on guys..dont be on the defensive,dont nit pick,baal ki khaal na uttaro...admit that we are abyssmal...yet we can and we will find that beauty someday that our culture always had.Let us not flogg the colonial cliches.Plain admission and then a will to change MYSELF,MY SORROUNDINGS..that should'nt b challenging.Let us flog the next guy who donates a crore rupee mukut for this or that Bhagwan.And yes we 'offer' to our Gods for this or that in return.

Posted On 7/9/2009 3:10:30 PM
nitin Said:


I am sorry to say but your article to me seems to be written like the communists , who confuses the world with their here and there knowledge but are not productive in the end product . You also seem to be downgraded by being an Indian and a Hindu as well . You quoted Ambanis but didn't quoted Tatas who has more net worth than Ambanis and fully owned and run by charitable trust ! I feel there are many Indians like you who are ashamed of being an Indian . Somebody wrote comment that it is "constructive criticism" but I can see only criticism in your article .

Posted On 7/9/2009 3:39:03 PM
TP Said:


This land has been the intellectual capital of the world from time immemorial. As is the case with intellectuals they can be extremes. They can either take the divine route or the demoniac route. For example, a software programmer can either develop a software for a hospital or create a virus to wreck the same computer. The knowledge base is the same but it depends on how we use it. The same Indians who go abroad behave differently than while in the country. We are a too liberal a state in the name of seculiarism and what not.

Posted On 7/10/2009 9:55:21 AM
Kiran Said:


Seeing the amount of comments - I think most of the arguments against the article have been covered. Hinduism is not a give-take religion - this is the fear we have in our minds that if we do something, only then we can expect something back is embedded into us. Gita says -that all the God expects from us is devotion - nothing material. We do not follow rules - because they are not enforced. Once you enforce them, only then people will be forced to follow. e.g Fine the driver who jumps a signal a lot. Next time - 10 others will follow it. This is what happens in a developed country. If the enforcement was weak there, people there would do the same. It is human mentality to do so - not just Indian mentality. India has given a lot of philanthophists..it is better to give without having a name attached ( like a Karna) than showing it. e.g Lot of people donate money at temples (Tirupathi getting the most) - one of the mass scales of philantrhophy - which goes towards medical facilites, educational institutes and other such areas. It is just that we have to open our minds.. that we do have it in us to improve.

Posted On 7/11/2009 11:19:12 AM
j Said:


Oh yes! Another Indian trait...cant take criticism(since we know it all) and NO sense of humour!

Posted On 7/11/2009 3:12:00 PM
priyanka Said:


I recently came across an article titled "Why Indians don't give back to society?". The article related the root cause of this behavior to the Hobbesian soceital structure we live in ,which in turn is shaped primarily from our religious faith based on the preachings of Hinduism. Being an Indian and a follower of Hinduism,the article did keep my thinking about the sanctity of its content and its factual authenticity.So, I invested some time in it, google-d a bit, and came up with the following opinion: 1. The article talks about our religion playing a pivotal role in shaping our characteristics.It uses Indian and Hindu replace-ably throughout. - I agree that India is predominated by Hindus (80%), but India is home to the third-largest Muslim population in the world.It also contains the majority of the world's Zoroastrians, Sikhs, Jains and Baháí. Other religious groups include Jews, Christians and Buddhists. Also, Religious majorities vary greatly by state. Jammu and Kashmir and Lakshadweep are Muslim majority states; Nagaland, Mizoram and Meghalaya are Christian majority; Punjab is mostly Sikh; Arunachal Pradesh and Sikkim are mainly Buddhist. So, Indian and Hindu are different terms in meaning and hence, using them replace-ably is vague in itself. 2. The article states the most visible characteristic in Indians as opportunism and bases the theory on the road sense of Indians.It says that Fatal motoring cases in India are a grim record of how the driver ran over people and drove away. - I agree that we do not follow the traffic rules completely, but to a large extent, the reason lies in over-populated cities and law enforcement ways of police. But, this is not limited to our country alone. National government (U.S.) statistics indicate that approximately eleven percent of all vehicle accidents are hit and run car accidents.To read complete comment http://priyankaagarwal.wordpress.com/2009/07/14/what-has-your-religion-taught-you/

Posted On 7/14/2009 10:34:04 AM
Chandra Said:


The author has packaged opinions and anecdotes as settled facts – he has missed an opportunity to shape the thinking on the way forward, rather than indulge in some amused, breast-beating. I’m a former Indian (and still a Hindu) settled in the US for more than 20 years and I’d be careful before making sweeping comments. There are corrupt, greedy people in the West as well – enough to wreak havoc on the global economy! And being opportunistic is the fuel that powers the capitalist societies! The sad state of affairs in the Indian civil society is not unique to India – it is endemic across most of the Third Word nations. India has not had a long term peace & prosperity or a cultural homogeneity that engenders a high-minded civic regimen. Most Muslims and many Christians have more fidelity to their faith, including the religious decree on charity; on the other hand, Hindu religion is not a big driver of the collective conscience in India today and when it is, it is usually bastardized. Much of the success of the Western cultures can be attributed to an exceptional work ethic, emphasized in the Protestant/Puritan/Calvinist traditions - something that can be found in the Bhagwad Gita as well, but who is looking? Of course, none of this absolves the leaders of the society (not just political leaders) from taking the bull by its horns and recommend strategic and tactical maneuvers. The Brahma worship reference is neither here nor there - besides being simply false; its only relevance to the topic is to serve as a writing device to reinforce the writer’s stance.

Posted On 7/17/2009 3:41:49 AM
Satish Said:


I agree with the author regarding the opportunistic nature of Indians. And guys think about it why is it so? because there are limited resources that have to be shared among so many people. But I don't agree with the author that Indians don't give back to the society. The Hindu scriptures talk about selfless activity and the belief in Karma. Infact a small observation: Have you ever seen Western folks sharing their food, Indians from all walks of life always share their food. This to me speaks volumes. It is true that folks in India share a give and take relationship with the gods, but the same religion teaches not to attach oneself to materialistic desires. The beautiful part of Hindu religion is that it is meant for people at different stages of evolution. People who give and take will ultimately get over their desires and in India when basic resources become available to everyone, I am sure we will see a marked shift in culture. Everything has to evolve finally, that's the law of nature.

Posted On 7/18/2009 10:16:49 AM
Ritesh Said:


One hypothesis to explain behavior of Indians is that we have grown up in a society of scarce resources; supply has always been less than demand in India. It is always a rat race - survival of the fittest. All parents teach their children to compete, to go ahead. I know that if I don't go ahead, there are 10 others who are waiting to go ahead. This kind of behavior may not have existed always and may be a few centuries old, from the time India has started seeing poverty. It is related to the development level of the society. Developed countries have also gone through this phase. Singapore used to make people clean beaches if they were caught breaking any rule, and the footage used to be beamed on national television. Countries have either taken harsh measures or waited for general literacy rates to grow. As population becomes more literate, and more aware of its rights and duties to live in a civil society, significance of the things mentioned by the author increases. And automatically manners and etiquettes change. Right now earning more money than our parents is the more significant need or expectation. Manners can wait.

Posted On 7/23/2009 3:59:50 PM
Sudhir Said:


What the author has described as Indian behaviour is common to all religions and nationalities. I have personally seen in Europe, UK and USA citizens breaking the law when no one is looking. I have seen in Paris how students travelling by bus avoid buying a ticket. The only difference I see is that the 'protestant' does not crib paying when charged. We do. That is because we are poor. That is the only difference. Take the latest case of corruption in New Jersey where 44 have been charged for corruption including former and current mayors. The only difference is that the charged ones have resigned. We normally do not. That is the second difference. Again arising out of the fact that we have very little supervision and policing as in Western countries. As for 'bribing' the God, might be that Hinduism has more of it but it is also there in other religions.

Posted On 7/24/2009 6:07:15 PM
phani Said:


i received this artice in a mail from one of my collegue. i had to search for this author name on google to post my comments(he is not worth it!! but i felt i need to write about this rubbish. i dont even intend to argue on TRASH that has written. what is worrying is many others appreciate his views. i'm sure all those are not aware of the greatness of our religion. only reason being that we haven't made a sincere effort to study about our religion or our culture. but the author has conviniently made use of our ignorance. for those who supported such view i can assure/prove that whatever author has written is nothing but trash(that is where it belongs!!!). njoy..

Posted On 7/25/2009 8:45:27 PM
A Said:


Like most of India's sensationalist media, Mr. Patel is unable to recognize the difference between correlation and causation ... or worse, the lack of a link. Indians are opportunistic. We jump towards boarding at the gate, or at traffic. This is because throughout history we have had little to go around and things have been ... Read Morerationed. We are programmed to believe that if we don't take the opportunity, someone else must. After all, supply is rationed. To extrapolate this as a causal relationship with religion (ANY) is absurd. Beyond digging the surface, has Mr. Patel researched if this behaviour by Indians/Hindus were a recent phenomenon or something that has historical precedence? Has Mr. Patel gone back before the construction of the Indian state to see if Indians were opportunistic during the Mughal times, and before? Finally, in his gross use of the Protestant work-ethic (did he just read a book and think he is a scholar?) overlooks the fact that the richest country (GDP/Person) prior to British rule was India. I am not quoting some nationalist Indian. Go research major articles by top "Western" economists if you do not believe me. Was this high income because we were Protestant? Well, Mr. Patel's hypothesis are absurd. But he does reflect something VERY true about the Indian psyche. The need to have an opinion however irrelevant and factually incorrect it may be.

Posted On 7/25/2009 10:22:01 PM
Kranthi Said:


The author isnt entirely correct. I am completely against what author says abt indians or hinduism. First and foremost, I guess the author is not aware correct reason, why Brahma is not worshipped. If one see in hindu mythology there is story in which brahma gets cursed by a saint that he wont have any temples except one temple. Thats the reason people never built any more temples. It has nothing to do with hindus attitude. And secondly opportunist attitude is not just in india, infact in all developing countries, so blaming hinduism is entirely wrong, pakistan a completely islamic country has more opportunists than in india. Regarding philothopy by indians, yes we are behind other rich people in US etc. But that doesnt mean rich indians are not good at all, there are enough number of indians who donate to needy organizations like orphanages etc, runs NGOs etc. Indian will start donating to others the day they are sure of their survival, which doesnt apply for most of indians. Ambanis are not the only indians, so if they dont give doesnt mean other indians dont give. Ambanis are generating heavy employment its in a way giving to the nation.

Posted On 7/26/2009 10:48:31 PM
Sundararaman Said:


A nation's culture's goodness is judged by the goodness that she transcends to the other comity of nations. If protestanism is the byword of culture of US, Germany and British, then that culture could be associated with exploitation as each one of these have been the biggest exploiters in the past three centuries at different points of time. India on the other hand has been the most benign nation vis-a-vis other comity of nations. Take the case of Bangladesh formation. After defeating the Pakisthani forces the Indian Army remained in Bangladesh for no more than two weeks, this culture is drawn from Maryada Purushottam Rama who after winning Lanka did not enter the kingdom to claim colony of the kingdom. This is the ideal man whose memory the Hindu haters would like to be banished from the nation's consciousness. If that is done then this nation would be another exploiter in the world.

Posted On 8/2/2009 10:17:54 PM
Siddarth Said:


Thought provoking article and I am agreeable to most of the points made in it. But it is unfair to say Hinduism is the root of our behavior, I only wish it were that simple. If we are united by one thing, it is our "chalta hai" attitude, cutting across aall cultures and religions. So the symptoms are right, the cause incorrect.

Posted On 8/3/2009 1:15:55 PM
Hruday Said:


Why are so many people quoting the gita and getting all uptight about a few home truths that the author brought forth. Dissent and criticism of ones own country, state, religion seems to be increasingly equated to something akin to traitorous behaviour. There is hardly any reflective analysis of what he has said, but most comments are knee-jerk reactions about how ancient and great our civilizaiton is, a lot of high-falutin sankrit quotes from the gita, puranas, what have you, and how great our religion is and the usual blaming of colonizers, foreigners, chinese.. whoever comes handly. we have bred a cult of religious patriots apparently, who cannot take any form of dissent, and would prefer every columnist/writer to be constantly singing hosannas about how great and glorious our country, past and religion are. And if can throw in some sanskit quotes in there all the better.

Posted On 8/5/2009 8:36:04 AM
Jay Said:


An incredibly superficial article with a veneer of the intellectual! Aakar Patel's ignorance of history, socio-economic issues, religion are breathtaking. But I suppose it appeals to the ignorant faux cognoscenti with intellectual pretentions. Using religion as a prism to explain current behaviour is like the case of the IIM-A Prof using Game Theory to explain how Indians behave on roads! Opportunism breeds in an environment of scarcity; Mind-numbing bureaucracy coupled with a lack of avenues for speedy and appropriate redressal in a feudal society also leads to quick-fix opportunistic solutions. Wonder why the Islamic, Christian, Buddhist, Communist-Atheist people from countries that are still in the early stages of development (Latin America to Africa to South-South East Asia to East Europe to Central Asian republics) show the same opportunistic behaviours. Polite behaviour (eg saying "Please" to giving way to people in traffic) are learned behaviours as any amateur sociologist-psychologist knows. The absence of quick punitive mechanisms reinforce "bad" behaviours. Education and awareness play a big role in this regard. The author is blissfully unaware of Hindu myths that detail the curse on Brahma resulting in his not being worshipped. Notwithstanding that, there are a few Brahma temples in India! As far as charity goes, even the Rig Veda talks of charitable giving; The Bhagvad Gita is all about the karma-yogi who has to fulfil his work/dharma with utmost devotion without regard to the end result. I don't want to belabour the point. I only hope reasonably credible media outlets like Mint enforce a minimum standard of scholarship for a writer to get exposure!

Posted On 8/5/2009 2:15:54 PM
Raj Said:


Given the population we have and the weak economic situation our country faces any other culture would have done much less compared to what it is now.The Americans and the Europeans if born and brought up in India (minus Indian Culture) would have been worse than the Ambanis!

Posted On 8/7/2009 5:25:48 PM
Raj Said:


For many years Mumbai traffic was considered disciplined. It is just a matter of forcing discipline. The same Indian in Singapore or USA observes rules, why? He knows he will be fined. Seat belts are worn by majority and the next gen will do it automatically The stealing the financial system of west which bought a global crisis ? what about it? Which is a bigger evil ? Are we not all? Why the major issue on patents in USA selling AIDS drugs at high cost to Africa. Is that opportunist. See the movie “There was Blood”and you will realize how opportunists USA is/ Iraq war is the biggest eg. Hinduism talks of rebirth and that doing good this life will benefit in next life.. Same as heaven Does he have any idea how much Tata’s have spent in Tatanagar / Jamshedpur ? They do not give money they build the society.. Premji is giving and quietly.

Posted On 8/8/2009 4:01:33 PM
Raj Said:


This small article brings out the Indian psyche in the open so very clearly. It does untangle the rudiments of the behavioural traits to provide a plausible picture. The clarity of the issues are bold and at the same time places a constraint, in the form of a warning, for long-term dealings or relationships ~ this is what the Author Aakar Patel brings out. That, Indians in their pursuit of creating opportunities the Creator is ignored by design for all means are adopted and justified to achieve the end. I agree we Indians do operate in isolation.

Posted On 8/9/2009 11:16:24 AM
A Said:


Many years ago when I lived in the Middle East, I was told a joke about Indians. It went like this: A major buyer of crabs contacted an Indian supplier for the first time and arranged for a shipment of crabs. Traditionally these were shipped in large, closed and refrigerated containers. When the first shipment arrived, the buyer went to the port. He was astonished to find the container was uncovered. He turned to the Indian shipper, who had accompanied him to the port to ensure that the initial shipment went well, and asked: "How come the container is open? Crabs can climb out and escape." The shipper replied, "No,sir, these are Indian crabs." The buyer countered: "What do you mean by 'Indian crabs'? All crabs can walk and these can escape from the open container." To which the exporter responded: "Sir, these are Indian crabs. As soon as one tries to escape to a better place, the others will pull him down." It's a joke folks and it's been applied to many different cultures. However, there is an element of truth in it - just give it some serious thought. Before hate mail and cursing begins, let me assure you that I am of Indian origin!!

Posted On 8/10/2009 4:06:23 AM
bil Said:


Looks like this author has taken jokes and stereotypes about on his community (patels) too seriously and started writing this article to defend and say..hey look all Indians are like that...opportunism is in our DNA culture and religion..don't blame us. Indians wont progress until they stop playing this "It we who are the problem" game. As someone as observed many times before, Indians as collective have become stupid people and power of group of stupid people is beyond human comprehension. But that doesn't mean that we were always like this and will be like this. We may have become dirty, greedy and selfish who pay little attention to hygiene but its not because its part of our culture, religion or DNA, its because of lack of physical infrastructure and mental education. The logic is very simple, people will follow guidelines if things are easily accessible not only physically but even mentally.

Posted On 8/11/2009 9:35:23 AM
Vignesh Said:


It is a fact that if you blame Indians and especially Hindus and Hinduism, most others would agree. The tolerance is inbuilt and it is misused by opportunist authors like this. The author seems not only confused about what he wants to criticize, but also is blind beyond current reality. He does not have time or motivation to go back say 500 years and see how generous our people were, many of my native village houses still has a room meant for trespassers, we made such places to feed and host trespassers when westerners were killing each other. It is very easy to blame religion and other things for such behavior, but the basic fact is, we don’t see the economics, today western world is more benevolent because they are wealthy and we were good because we were wealthy. We learnt to become opportunists because we had to compete for everything. Finding one part of a religion and relating it to a reality of the last 100 years or so reflects the narrow mindedness of the author too. Ya writing such things will sell, that too easily, but what’s the use of such articles, finding a wrong social habit and attacking a religion for that, what purpose does it serve? The only purpose I can see is bring out the author's real intentions, of saying that Hinduism causes narrow mindedness, I don’t know the intentions of saying such a thing though. One piece of advice to the Author: Go get a life, stop blaming religion take responsibility and stop being an opportunist yourself, thats the best you can do.

Posted On 8/11/2009 6:35:35 PM
vakibs Said:


The article by Aakar Patel is a load of shit. I don't think he knows a pittance about Hinduism. All the venting of his frustration is right on mark, about lack of civic sense, indifference etc. But whenever he starts speaking about Hinduism, it is just a load of nonsense. The god-figures in Hinduism stand for different forces of nature, or equivalently, different emotions of mind. This is because the universe is considered to be a reflection of one's own consciousness : everything in the interior world has a counterpart in the exterior world. There is no supernatural element, no God beyond our own universe. Ultimately any force or element of nature can be understood as a manifestation of three forms : intelligence (represented by Brahma) life (represented by Vishnu) or energy (represented by Shiva). The spouses of these figures stand for exactly the same concept, but represented in the feminine. All these three forms are supposed to be 3 facets of one and single entity known as universal consciousness or Brahman. Hindu philosophy says that the universe is created by intelligence (awareness), it is preserved by life and it will be destroyed by energy. This are the functions of the Trimurti, but it doesn't mean they don't have any function beyond that. Life, intelligence or energy are perennial and are essential for the very existence of the universe. Brahma has 4 faces observing all the four directions , signifying the holistic nature of awareness. Vishnu incarnates regularly on the earth to restore balance to justice, because it is His job (as life). The dance of Shiva is considered to be the very vibrations of the universe.

Posted On 8/14/2009 6:00:39 PM
vakibs Said:


Understanding either of these 3 forms is essential to comprehend the nature of the all-encompassing Brahman. This realization that one's own consciousness is not different from the universe (Brahman) is the essence of salvation. This realization can be done in 3 methods : knowledge (jnana), love or devotion (bhakti) or selfless activity (karma). The paths of knowledge and activity need no personal God (Ishvar) for fulfilment. It is only the path of love (Bhakti) that encourages love and worship of God. This can be any form, but the most supreme are the forms of the Trimurti. Brahma (intelligence) should not be worshipped because there is no point. Being infatuated with one's own intelligence doesn't help in one's self-identification with the universe (this has been illustrated by several myths such as that of the Ketaki flower). Thus, this form should only be realized by the path of knowledge (jnana). However, the other forms of the Trimurti : Vishnu (life) or Shiva (energy) can serve as objects of worship.

Posted On 8/14/2009 6:02:45 PM
Siva Said:


Looks like another anti Hindu propaganda! Brahma is not worshipped because of a curse from Lord Shiva when Brahma and Vishnu were competing to see the extremities of the Siva Linga. Lord vishnu took the form of varaha and tried to find the bottom while Brahma took a form of a swan to find the top of the linga whilst a falling "Thaazhampoo" told the swan that it has seen the top of Siva Linga and Brahma followed the lead to claim victory of the competition. Lord Siva, after knowing the fact became furious and before he did something to Brahma, Brahma tendered the apology and Lord Siva cursed both the "Thaazhampoo" and Brahma be not worshiped at all by anyone. The principle of Sristhi (Creation - Lord Brahma) Sthithi (Maintenance - Lord Vishnu) Samhaaram ( Destroy Lord Siva) is an inevitable part of Hinduism and and there are several temples where the three are worshiped as a single deity It is also to be noted that Dhaanam ( Donation) , Damanam (regulation or control of desires), Dhaya (kindness, sympathy etc) is one another important principles of Hinduism. And all above it is a true Hindu that calls "Loka Samasthaa Sukhino Bhavandhu" - that entire universe be in happy and in bliss....

Posted On 8/19/2009 9:14:01 PM
Re: narayan Said:


Aakar makes the point that Brahma is not worshiped, because it is not a trait of Indian culture that we will do something that gives us back something. That we are very matlabi, which is why we are not generous, and give back to society.. Nothing to do with so called mythology and stories..

Posted On 8/21/2009 7:08:12 AM
Roy Said:


Another beautiful article .. kudos ... to me, most important is that the article brings up a very interesting aspect of Indian phyche .. people can always choose to disagree .. but a great contribution to the debate on this topic

Posted On 8/23/2009 9:47:59 AM
Rado Said:


Aakar is a man of faith, and a clouded idiot. I don't believe in God, or religions of convenience, and therefore can see all religions in equal light. God is not a 'who', but a 'what'. 'It' is not an entity but an idea. 'It' is something that gets the feeble and complex human mind through to the next day. So connecting religion to Indians is the most stupidest thing I've heard! It is nothing but basic survival instinct. The more you put in a given place, the more competition there is. So of course people will move to the other side of the lane. I've lived in four countries to understand how the exact same thing happens. Create a one-sided restriction, add pressure and there will be overflow. He is talking about Rockerfella and Buffet without knowing one thing about them other than what he read on blogs and newspapers by other similar jobless people. Man is the most complex creature on the planet. How complex? Well, the next smartest animal - the Orang-utan cannot even salivate 'thinking' about food when it's hungry. And we? We can go the extent of having sex with movie stars by closing our eyes - and indeed feel satisfied! You want creatures like us to get to the next day without using every part of our brain?! Irrespective of 'purpose' we will do anything out of one simple virtue: curiosity. We in a cage with three buttons, two of which give food and an electric shock respectively, will wonder what the third button does! The next smartest creature has no such needs. Press the first for hunger, and avoid the last at all costs. Why Indians are blah, blah, blah... Move on man; we are sorry for your 'luck/God/religion' choices. I'm an Editor too, and I don't sit all day wondering what the third button does; I'd rather try to get out of the cage. Best of luck to your confused existence. -Rado.

Posted On 8/25/2009 10:54:13 AM
Sanjeev Said:


It is a classic case of omission and commission to drive one point agenda. If the Indians did not give back to society, how come we bounce back after each calamity, in spite of corrupt leadership and administration and a pseudo intellect media which thrives on trivia as real issues will render them powerless. Grow up. India consists of over 1 billion souls and most of them do give back to the society in their own way. Please do not cite exceptions.

Posted On 9/6/2009 8:34:28 PM
Suba Said:


A very well written article, but I beg to differ in citing religion as reason for some of the uncivilized behavior of INdians. It is so convenient to find reason in religion, but the fact remains that it is the attitude of people irrespective of religion that is the root cause for miseries than religion

Posted On 9/11/2009 12:13:08 AM
Prash Said:


A good thought provoking article! Albeit I would doubt the analysis process the author adopted to arrive at concrete conclusions that relate mainstream Indian socio-cultural behavior to religion ONLY. I am not an expert on this matter, but at a first glance, it seems like there are more factors in play here. I do not believe one can look at purely mythological and religious aspects and arrive at the conclusion that this article does. Especially so because major religions from pretty much every developed country focuses on 'pleasing' the God in one way or the other (act in a suggested way, donate, preach), the objective being either getting a safe path to heaven, or relieving one from the endless sufferings of this and the other worlds. I tend to think a nation's history would have a bigger role to play with how the society evolves and how the attitude of the people therein morphs/takes shape. I would argue that in a community where there are more people seeking the resources than the society can provide, there will be competition, jealousy, and mis-trust. Keeping secrets and resources to yourself then become your competitive advantage to 'survive' or 'fare better' than your peers are doing. And this is just one aspect to a complicated cause-behavior pattern the author tried to describe. As for mis-trust, may be our recent history has shown us not to trust the system, the local government, our neighbor? Remember what happened the last time our ancestors trusted the reps of East India Company? As for the attitude, I have seen the same in a comparatively better-to-do western country (U.S.), although at a smaller scale. I have seen people complaining about high taxes, finding ways to evade them. The difference being: the vigilance system in U.S. is better than what it is in India, so chances are good you get caught if you do. In the end, most of this boils down to limited resources for a mass of people, and the daily struggle because of this imbalance.

Posted On 9/17/2009 12:25:48 AM
Usha Said:


Aakar Patel, why don't you get some diversity training? I think, this is one of the worst articles, I have ever read so far. You're just confused and you don't have any idea what you're talking about. You have tried your best to relate the following words, like opportunism, giving back to society, Hinduism etc. What are you trying to convey here? I think you have very less self respect and you're also feeling degraded by being an Indian. If that's the case, then I feel that this article suits you the most. But, you can't just generalize everyone as you're. I think you have to be really careful while you're talking about something like this in the public. First of all, be proud of where you come from, it is inside every Indian. Please stop writing your crap worthless ideas. Thanks!

Posted On 10/6/2009 3:08:39 AM
Ana Said:


Aakar It may help to broaden your horizon by providing you with examples of other Indians who obviously escaped your narrow-view: Way out in the boonies, Gorakhpur is a town in north east UP which happens to be my hometown. Here I have seen my father who is now 80 years of age, is certified blind and keeps bad health yet his daily activities require average of 16 hours a day for few hours in meditation and prayers, community service involving education, civic issues, his law practice and as a mentor. As an adult he along with his peers among family and few in society have practiced " service above self". With every year they increased amount of their 'Time' and portion of 'Income' set aside for charity". Both my parents actively dedicated life for 'others' in family and society. e.g. for benefit of rural and urban poor organizing of eye operation camps, polio vaccination, distribution of calipers etc. etc. These efforts were not just one off events but were implemented as sustainable projects and reached the grassroots of one of the poorest and most densely populated areas in India for last fifty years. My parents and others ( and their collaborators) did not self promote or gloat about such activities or of their 'personal' reasons to do what they did. This is a case of a simple man and a woman and their simple life. Ever since I was a child I have seen their efforts to be really hard work which required most of their time, energy and sometimes all their money. I see their efforts and influence continuing still For my life, I too live a simple life ( in quite and private ) . I pray to Brahma. It is my conscious being ( in my heart and soul ). It is what I know as 'right and just'. It dictates how I spend my resources on daily basis. Unfortunately, I live outside of India as a working professional while here I continue to 'try' to best use my most precious commodity : " my time". I try not to be wasteful.... continued in next post as part 2...

Posted On 10/26/2009 1:47:35 PM
Ana Said:


continued as part 2... When in India, I take trains and try best to walk, pick litter outside my compound and quietly influence my neighbors to do the same. I never bribe or participate in goonda politics ( using non-cooperation) I criticize everything I find 'wrong' ( share my knowledge of creative options) yet I try and try to do something constructive each day I am there. I am convinced that I will be able to find and implement at least one sustainable solution in Gorakhpur, my hometown where I come from. It maybe in areas of sustainable agriculture, education, sanitation, gender issues etc. Another NRI neighbor, who dons khadi and eats simple, is a doctor who walks miles to slums daily to provide vaccinations and basic medicines for free, imparts basic education etc. He takes out time each year for a few months to be in Gorakhpur. However these are examples of solo / individual actions efforts not affiliated to 'any' organization. My question is : do we need to publicize about this to validate our self worth as cultural elite? condemn a civic society as morally bankrupt or corrupt governance ? or just attempt to live life as any other ' responsible educated and civilized' human regardless of our nationality, race or creed?

Posted On 10/26/2009 1:49:17 PM
SUKBINDER Said:


I agree with the opening post. I was born in England of Indian parents. like most people i want to be proud of my roots and of India. However, it has to be said that there does exist in the Indian mentality the "opportunism " the op spoke of. The lack of concern for the common good the community. Lets not get into religion because that horrible and divisive topic always gets in the way of proper constructive debate and has far too much bearing on what Indians feel about themselves and their place in society. Dishonesty exists in every society but its like a disease in India where its as if you try to be honest and have integrity you are on a loser. Let me give you an example my mother died in a road crash and the doctor was asked not to do an autopsy by the family. He rubbed his fingers at my brother who handed over a large sum of money to him. This is true. My opinion of Indians isnt just based on this fact- i see the mentality of Indians here in the uk and i'm disgusted by their way of thinking. I'm not ashamed of being Indian but i'm ashamed that we havent moved on as a collective society. I strongly believe that only a nuclear bomb or a dictator like hitler of stalin can make a change. Democracy hasnt worked for india ; theres too many of us. Its time for a much stronger dose of governance where things get done. Shinda

Posted On 11/7/2009 2:04:02 AM