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Search Said:
Dear Aakar,
You are making the same mistake numerous indians have been making through the years; the problem is not with the Bhagavad Gita - it is with the mis-interpretation of it. If you know the context of the Bhagavad Gita, Krishna got Arjuna to fight the war as a result of the Bhagavad Gita - not to run away! Neither Krishna nor Arjuna was a sanyasi that renounced the world before/after the Gita.
If you stay on the periphery of the Gita, you are not going to get it's essence.
If you really want to figure out its essence, go indepth into what Swami Vivekananda or Sri Sri Ravi Shankar have to say about it.
The Gita was given in a certain context of place/time. 5000+ years later, to understand it you need to dig deeper;
You are making the same mistake you accuse young Gandhi/Indians make - looking at your own indianness, feeling ashamed about it, trying to assign blame... & loosing sight of something far more valuable...
Posted On 9/10/2009 11:57:40 PM
Re: Prs Said:
If you think the author is making a mistake, why don't you take a stand to explain Gita's true message in its entirety to ordinary people who don't even know the basics of how to use condoms and keep his surroundings clean. PLEASE, STOP THIS HIPPROCRACY!! STOP DEFENDING!! ACCEPT that your country is messed up. Think about how we got here. why did we end up where we are now though we had such excellent scriptures that you revere.
AGAIN THESE ARE NOT FOR ORDINARY MEN. These are for yogis as author said. We really need to replace Gita with something much less shiny and complicated so a layman can understand. Somethings that ordinary man can understand and will fit in today's industrialized world. And if you think we already have one like that..help printing that in millions.
We will never improve ourselves until we stop quoting gita and other scriptures like Arjuna did this, Krishna did that. Think what are YOU doing. Please... Just quoting things is not going to make any difference.
Posted On 9/23/2009 1:02:15 AM
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bagdu Said:
Aakar,get out of mumbai mentality for a change.Also get out of the time wrap fixated in colonial times and depressing 70s.The moment you start preaching about India,you land in a soup.Geeta itself as The Book is a colonial construct: we have a book,let them have a book,let that book be Gita.
You can refer to Gita's of yore by Ashtavakra and other great sages but that does not have anything to do with Shrimad Bhagvad Geeta.
Its good that you pick up provocative themes,but dont create truisms of your own.
Posted On 9/11/2009 12:26:48 AM
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Seva Said:
Gita’s emphasis on doing one’s work (duty) honestly and with dedication:
Gita tells that people must do their duty, putting the best effort and without worrying overly about the eventual outcome which will come anyway.
"Action is greater than inaction: perform therefore thy task in life. Even the life of the body could not be if there were no action." (Gita: Ch. 3 - V. 8)
“In liberty from the bonds of attachment, do though the work to be done: for the man whose work is pure attains indeed the Supreme (real success, salvation).” (Gita: Ch. 3 - V. 19)
“Even as the unwise work selfishly dedicated to their selfish works, let the wise man work unselfishly and with the same dedication leading to the good of all.” (Gita: Ch. 3 - V. 25)
“Those who follow the above guidelines faithfully, and have a good will, find through working honestly their freedom and success.” (Gita: Ch. 3 - V. 31)
Posted On 9/11/2009 1:28:26 AM
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Chiluka Said:
" ...Requires moving the Gita from Hinduism’s centre to its periphery.."
- Well said Mr. Authour- Kudos.
Excessive usage and marketing of "Gita" is creating confusion in Hindu culture - not actual "Bhagvad Gita".
- Controvercy in meaning now a daz is- Gita was FORMED in response to confusion- dielema of the person (Arjun) in the situation to "Gain something" - It was not created to teach "Away from something" (Vairagya)- and thats for something good- something "Satvik " (Dharm yudhha)-- Yudhha (War) also can be "Satvik" - if it is against Injustic.
Soul of "Gita" gone far away - need to RE-FORMED.
Please keep continue such a wonderful write up.
Posted On 9/11/2009 3:32:44 AM
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Venki Said:
Aaakar,
You are quite the Don Quixote tilting at windmills. The Gita is not the Bible, and most Hindus have NOT read it. If you
are looking for reasons as to why civic amenities do not work in India, the Gita or Hindu traditions are the wrong places to look for solutions. There is no Hindu'ism' with the Gita at the center analogous to Christianity with the Bible at the center. There are hundreds of traditions, so you will be waiting forever for your imaginary Martin Luther. If you misdiagnose a problem, you will not get the right solution. Singapore was as bad as India 40years ago
but a drive to provide civic amenities and incentives and disincentives tailored to make the people follow the rules have changed that city-state unrecognisably. There are many African countries with poorer civic amenities that are not Hindu. There are 57 muslim countries that are part of the OIC. How do you explain the poor civic amenities in many of them including Cairo, Egypt? We have had 60 years of secular education to impart civic sense to our people, have they failed?
You make the right observation that detachment is for Yogis. But we all have a little bit of the yogi in us. Hindu traditions talk about the 4 goals in life namely Dharma (righteous living), Artha (wealth, glory and other material things), Kama (pleasure of the senses)
and finally Moksha (liberation). There are many texts, the most important of which is the ThiruKural that talks about
the first 3 goals namely Dharma, Artha and Kama in 1330 aphorisms. The Kural is better known than the Gita in Tamil Nadu
and yet the civic problems you talk about exist in Tamil Nadu as well. If you tell me that Indians are not goal oriented and do not act in obtaining Artha and Kama you are ignorant. What you need to focus on is the failure of the state at the central, state and local level for the problems that you want solutions for.
Posted On 9/11/2009 6:32:01 AM
Re: Prs Said:
Nice reply! I think you said it right. But where do we start ? who, to approach. I was born as a clean slate without any predisposition in my mind about indians. But now i hate most of the indians the way they live. very simple mentality of Indians - throw your garbage right next to your walls..throw your garbage on streets. why? because "Its not my property" mentality. But what they don't understand is, its their country and place where their children will one day have to live and survive. How did we get this evil thinking ? How did we end up animals like this ? How are going to fix this ? Can you please reply to my comment!!!!!
Posted On 9/23/2009 1:45:55 AM
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Vasant Said:
Sir, you definitely do not pull punches. Very well written article. This unfortunate truth is easily observable in all fields. For example, even in open source software, Indians have a reputation of being great consumers, but making abysmal contributions.
Posted On 9/11/2009 8:42:00 AM
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Parshotam Said:
Aakar Patel has totally failed to grasp the universal,sublime and non-sectarian message of The Gita.
He is so consumed by his ignorance that he even trashes Mahatma Gandhi(as Gandhi used to read The Gita daily)who lived and died for truth and justice while changing tens of millions of lives for the better.
you have listed three messages from The Gita- But you have been unable to interpret/analyze them correctly.You have written that "Gita"s definition of "Sattava"-goodness,serenity,wisdom-will puzzle someone who wants to follow this advice.I can"t understand if someone is taught to be good,serene and wise-how one can become confused.These are basic qualities of life to lead a useful and productive life.Great men/women from all religions and walks of life have been teaching these great qualities of life to human-beings.
You have written"that those asked to work without expectation of reward normally don't work or do shoddy work. The Gita believes otherwise."
Here also you have totally failed to grasp the true message of "work without expectation of reward."This message actually wants to raise your efficiency/energy for performing the required work.It simply means when you have decided to do any work/duty/job/project- do it with your full concentration-don't get distracted by worrying about success/failure or any rewards or other things. So you will do a better job.Mahatma Gandhi followed The Gita's teachings-that is why he was able to do such great things including freedom for India. Whole world respects/revers him.
Indian streets/cities are filthy because we have become very selfish and corrupt and are ruled by corrupt and unpatriotic leadership.This uncleanliness is not true only for India-You visit any developing country ruled by corrupt leaders, things are the same.It has nothing to do with religion.
The many ills that plague the Hindu society today are not due to that we follow teachings of The Gita but because we don't follow the teachings of The Gita.
Posted On 9/11/2009 8:49:14 AM
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Sunil Said:
I felt very sad reading this article by Mr. Aakar Patel.
The day religion shall not be a part of our routine we shall move to the dooms day. Religion talks of balance in the life and you expect to throw it to the periphery…?? Sad to hear such a thought.
Religion is a matter of great search – it is not just reading a book and making your interpretations – you need to live it and then you realize deep within you the real meaning of it. For example, “We must work without expectation of reward” – which you expect to interpret as absolutely wrong. Don’t you think that you need to understand religion in depth and understand the meaning of what lord Krishna is trying to say – he is only saying that one shouldn’t worry about result but you have to focus on your job (karma)– your action – deliver your best and let Him reward based on the quality, intention and intensity of one’s work.
Religion can not be explained in words – it need to be lived.
There are many things which Lord Krishna has asked to bring into practice like developing a spontaneous nature – this is something which is a must for the today’s crazy lifestyle. This brings a great peace to your mind and improves your functional capability(ies).
Please look into the details of what Gita is trying to say…………..Message of Gita is not degrading India…………it is applicable for all times and shall stay applicable for the coming future also
We should not forget that History suggests that we were quite flourished when Lord Krishna was there……….probably much more what London is today (or in 1940 etc when Mahatma Gandhi had visited there)
Gita brings a lot of peace, spontaneity, trust, development of great mental capabilities etc etc to practitioners. And it is absolutely not responsible for any downturn of Indian society……….infact it asks (as Lord Krishna had asked Arjun) you to believe in KarmYog and do your job and not run away (as Arjun was running away) from it.
Posted On 9/11/2009 11:32:13 AM
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shiv Said:
whose shoddy research/experience is that?
Gita concurs with advanced studies.
1. See Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Maslow states that a person works for self actualization (roughly equivalent to self realization in hinduism) as the ultimate motive.
2. regression theory: When higher forms are not achievable than human redouble efforts for lower needs. If one does not self actualize then one puts more effort to earn self esteem and assumes self esteem is the ultimate motive. Gita clearly says this is wrong: do your duty and dont look for rewards. if you look for rewards then you are lowering your standards.
3. according to psychologists people are self motivated unlike your understanding.
Posted On 9/11/2009 11:33:11 AM
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Ravi Said:
What is the point of this article - Hindus not being socially responsible. Does that mean Muslims and Christians in India are. You have written as if all Hindus read Gita daily and then decide that they will do a shoddy job and neglect society. How many Hindus you know read Gita daily and follow the same. Indians sensitivity to outside society is very low and not Hindus alone. This article totally misinterprets The Gita. I have not read Naipual but using him as a reference on Gita is pitiable As if there is no other person who could interpret Gita in this entire world. Any person who understands and follows Gita would be very successful as well as be very socially responsible. Working with expectation will require you to bear the consequences. So if you work with the fruits in mind, you should be willing to take the credit or blame for it. It does not mean you do a shoddy job. Arjun was told to do his duty that of protecting the kingdom. Do our current set of leader do their duty and you think they read Gita for guidance. Among the three Gunas - Tamas is to be avoided. It is related to jealousy, hatred etc. Rajas is required for peeople whose responsibility requires such attitude. A soldier, policeman, a manager demanding work from his people or any person who is in a job. Gita in fact recommends Sattva and Rajas. What is wrong with having internal serenity and wisdom. Can you do a good job at work when your mind is not calm.
Overall a very patchy article with very little understanding of the real meaning.
Posted On 9/11/2009 11:50:52 AM
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Mausam Said:
Hi,
The interpretation of Geeta made here is wrong. Geeta does not say that do not expect the reward. (Karmani eva adhikaraste... ma faleshu kadachanah..). The correct interpretation is "You can control your deeds but you can not control the reward". You can expect the reward from your deeds but you get the reward or not, is not in your control so stop worrying about that.
Cheers!!
Mausam
Posted On 9/11/2009 12:18:23 PM
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Billy Said:
The author of this article has no clue about the Bhagavad-Gita, India's ancient great history or Hindus...
This trash should not be online; it does a great disservice to young Hindu minds that are trying to understand their heritage!
If you want to see just a minor part of Hindu India's genius and accomplishments just have a look here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Indian_inventions_and_discoveries
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Indian_science_and_technology
Posted On 9/11/2009 5:05:58 PM
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Prasad Said:
Full knowledge is great, no knowledge is bliss, half knowledge is fatal Mr.Patel. Srimad Bhagawad Gita is a gist of the Upanishads and Sri Krishna never claims otherwise. It's clarion call is to become a contributor of high merit and not a consumer full of greed. You can visit Swamy Parthasarathy at Pali Hills for proper guidance. You must be a nuclear physicist to comment upon Tarapore Reactor's safety, similarly you must be a novice never guided by a Guru in Hindu Religion, nothing wrong go become a humble student of any great Guru, meanwhile don't become a joker please.
Posted On 9/11/2009 5:59:30 PM
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Thamizh Said:
The article clearly exposes the author's "understanding" of Gita as well as India's culture. I havent come across such a stupid article in the recent past.
Posted On 9/11/2009 7:12:16 PM
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alpana Said:
There is a TARKA and there is KUTARKA. This is a good example of how one needs to be taught how to use a tool like a knife instead of trying to learn by oneself, that is why Mr. Patel needs a GURU to understand the message. The texts of Bible and Kuran have been misinterpreted to carry out atrocities by people who dont understand they are actually delievering the same message. Please don't criricise anything just for the sake of saying a few words, there are a lot of generalizations in the article.
Posted On 9/11/2009 8:05:43 PM
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Sanjay Said:
Neither Aakar Patel nor Naipul get the import of Gita. That's because they are spiritually illiterate. Gita can be applied across various fields (spiritual, intellectual and material). The problem is most people don't understand it in the right sense and color it their own way and blame Gita for their failings. Today the message of Gita is being applied across many corporations in India. Many spiritual leaders in India visit top companies and give discourses on the Gita and Upanishads and their messages. Spiritual matters have to be taught by spiritual leaders just as math is taught by a math professor or physics by a physics professor.
Posted On 9/11/2009 8:08:05 PM
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Rajan Said:
:-) i haven't read such a funny article ever before... :-) if Gita is the reason that India is a filthy and lethargic country then Quran might be the reason that US looks at every Muslim with suspicion... then teachings of Buddha might be the reason that Tibet is suffering from so long and Dalai Lama is seeking refuge in India... then Guru Granth Sahib might be reason that Punjab had to suffer because of sikh terrorism... then Bible might be reason that US invaded and destroyed Iraq on a wrong assumption that it had WMD...
Mr Author, i'm not sure what were you thinking or doing when you wrote this article... but believe me it's really funny.... :-)
Posted On 9/11/2009 8:12:13 PM
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DarthVader Said:
If Ignorance is Bliss,you sir,must be orgasmic.
Posted On 9/11/2009 8:13:12 PM
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WSKTA Said:
Aakar, a regular in Paki papers, is quite ignorant about matters Hindu. Who gives him this space in Mint? If he had asked muslims to weed out Koran's message, he would have been lynched.
I guess as in Seinfeld, you have to be a Jew to make jewish jokes and get away with it. Therefore Aakar's outbursts are tolerated.
Posted On 9/12/2009 12:01:06 AM
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R Said:
I feel desperately sorry for Naipaul! he lives in Oxfordshire and is married to a Pakistani lady! Effects slow poisoning is evident in his diatribe! sadly and humorously we can also look at another treatise sworn on by all western economists and if we study Adam smiths seminal work 'The wealth of nations', a casual observer will again conclude like Naipaul has done that India is immensely poor because her people have chosen to be inactive! That however negates the ground reality that amongst of ALL nations OUR PROGRESS for the past 63 years has actually been unparalleled in HISTORY of mankind!
True it is NOT quick enough for our impatience or wish list!
The poor author has chosen to ignore that In Gita, Krishna also tells that people only get in return, what they work for! and their rewards are ephemeral! for lasting peace of mind, ( and Moksha) people are encouraged to work with no expectations of reward! He has forgotten to Translate that shloka!
The Islamic influence on Naipaul is very evident! he has once again blamed the victim! the subjugation and inhuman explotation dividing to rule for 200 years and the power of sword of islam for 900 years seem to have NO effect on the Indians and it is just the GITA to blame for ALL our ills and the lack of public health measures and the backwardness of our rural lifestyle!! The Brits did not have GITA and were VERY active with their Xtian ethos ! why did the Dickensian London wreak with poverty squalor and filth? why did London suffer the Plague? These are documented events I have not invented them?
True the Victorians engaged in massive public health projects and built the sewage drains and the underground,and during the Victorian era India was under the clutches of a foreign ruler for whom the native lives were expendable!!Naipaul is a burning example of how a man of learning can twist and present facts selectively to suit his own prejudices!
Aakar patel, as usual blames the victim!!
Posted On 9/12/2009 12:34:56 AM
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Angad Said:
holy crap this article is wrong on so many levels. people hardly derive their character and morality from scripture. especially when its hiduism, since most hindus never ever read any of it. half of the characteristics that you define to be as hindu or indian are gross generalizations and stereotypes. the other half are a result of the society that we live in and the genes that we inherit. indians ignore the filth around them not because their 'hindu' nature tells them to, but because the cost of cleaning your neighborhood simply outweighs the benefits (economists call this rational behavior). pretty much every other behavior that you attribute to the gita can be explained by the environment and the socieconomic power structures people were born into. jesus man, take some sociology courses.
Posted On 9/12/2009 12:51:57 AM
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SS Said:
Another one of those articles whose logic is "All that is wrong in India is due to Hinduism". Authors of such articles use “Hindus” synonymously with “Indians” to bash Hinduism or Hindu concepts, however according to this breed of authors anything good in Indian is due to the influence of Islam, Christianity etc.
Questions for the author: Are you saying that Muslims/Christians etc are more action oriented than Hindus? Or are Muslim/Christians culturally “Hindu”?
All Muslim localities/old cities I have seen are just as bad as or worse than other (read: “Hindu”) parts- so is that also due to Muslims following the teachings of Gita?
Anybody with common sense can sense author’s deep contempt for Hinduism/Gita instead of an honest attempt to understand why India/Indians are filthy, passive, apathetic etc.
Posted On 9/12/2009 10:42:56 AM
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Subbarao Said:
There is fundamentally something warped in Aakar Patel's thinking and logic. He bases all his assumptions on the conditions of people, places and things in India which are and have been managed by the psuedo-secular socio-political set up of Congress raj for the better part of the sixty years. If one takes into account the achievements of the people like Laxmi Mittal, Vinod Dham, Sabeer Bhatia etc who achieved what they have achieved after GETTING out of the stiffling corrupt set up in India it is clear that it is not essentially a fault of "Hindu" ethos BUT the fault of the of India's ruling elite and the babudom riddled with the corruption and rampant redtapism which is the cause of some of the ills blamed on the supine "hindu" religious philosopy. While people like Patel might marvel at the cleanliness of airports in other City States such as Singapore etc but has he ever INTROSPECTED about the caning of the teenage citizen of USA for spray painting a Mercedes Benz car. It takes nothing to blame others including holy scriptures for the ills of the society but takes lots of guts and character to say prosecute successfully someone like the grandson of S.M. Nanda the EX-Navy chief of India who ran over & killed 5 people and then had his BMW washed by his servants and then almost bought over the eye witness. Does Bhagvad Gita ask you to ignore such injustice?. But how often does the typical Livemint reading class of folks stick their neck out for justice whether they read and follow Gita or not. Take an honest guess and then WRITE your next rabble rousing column Mr. Patel
Posted On 9/12/2009 11:42:50 AM
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B Said:
1) The Indian method of working - Aaram mein hai Ram.
2) Saari duniya bhagti hai par India CHALTA HAI
Posted On 9/12/2009 11:49:31 AM
Re: Manay Said:
Your points no. 1 and no.2 must then be the basis and philosophy of Akar's work and research specially for this article of Gita philosophy. He is an uneducated fool. I pity his ignorance and laziness.
Shame on Mint for crass publishing.
Posted On 10/24/2009 5:58:25 PM
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Jayanthram Said:
Dear Aakar,
I complement you for showing courage to evluate our holy cows with objectivity.Do not get distracted by the larger proportion of brickbats thrown at you when compared to a few bouquets.Even Naipaul cannot be faulted if and when he is writing a piece of objective truth.Unfortunate reality is that we Indians are doomed to pursue our schisoprenic existence with one half of our intellect paying homage to rationality and the other half deeply rooted in the domain of holy cows of the past which we want to call heritage!The exploitative society around us has found a perfect justification for the social inequalities around us in the convenient theory of Karma doled out by texts like Bhagavad Geeta.The grand holy cow concepts of Maya, Brahman and Karma stands for philossophical idealism of the most extravagant variety known to the history of philosophy and continue to engage the Argumentative Indian with zero benefits to our nation which houses 41% of the world's poor today.I encurage you to promote the solution of ACTION with a GOAL. A.P.Jayanthram
Posted On 9/12/2009 11:56:29 AM
Re: SCAggarwal Said:
Dear Mr. A.P.Jayanthram,
I doubt this gentleman called "Akar Patel" reads any of the comments made by any reader. Dont expect from Akar Patel any solution of Action with a Goal. He is a great secular intellectual. I further doubt anyone from LiveMint reads any comments made by any reader. We readers are happy only to see our comments.
Posted On 9/14/2009 2:15:23 AM
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Jayanthram Said:
Dear Aakar,
I complement you for showing courage to evluate our holy cows with objectivity.Do not get distracted by the larger proportion of brickbats thrown at you when compared to a few bouquets.Even Naipaul cannot be faulted if and when he is writing a piece of objective truth.Unfortunate reality is that we Indians are doomed to pursue our schisoprenic existence with one half of our intellect paying homage to rationality and the other half deeply rooted in the domain of holy cows of the past which we want to call heritage!The exploitative society around us has found a perfect justification for the social inequalities around us in the convenient theory of Karma doled out by texts like Bhagavad Geeta.The grand holy cow concepts of Maya, Brahman and Karma stands for philossophical idealism of the most extravagant variety known to the history of philosophy and continue to engage the Argumentative Indian with zero benefits to our nation which houses 41% of the world's poor today.I encurage you to promote the solution of ACTION with a GOAL. A.P.Jayanthram
Posted On 9/12/2009 11:56:29 AM
Re: Subbarao Said:
Before blaming the exploitative nature Indian society on the Hindu concept of Karma, look at the exploitation and decimation of natives in the Americas, Australia and Africa. Look also at the current day Buddhist Sri-Lanka and Myanmar for their human right abuses. Buddhist Cambodia of Pol-Pot was in a different league for senseless killing of its own people. Muslim Middle easBefore blaming the exploitative nature Indian society on the Hindu concept of Karma, look at the exploitation and decimation of natives in the Americas, Australia and Africa. Look also at the current day Buddhist Sri-Lanka and Myanmar for their human right abuses. Buddhist Cambodia of Pol-Pot was in a different league for senseless killing t is no paragon of virtue in this respect. Compared to regimes like Stalinist Russia and Mao's China, I would say the pacifist or so called fatalist Hindu ethos of India the better one. What ails Indian society is its corrupt socio-political system not just the Hindu ethos otherwise what can explain the maladies of commie ruled states like West Bengal & Kerala. One has to see the carnage in Africa be it in Hutu ruled Rwanda 15 years ago or current day Darfur to see that exploitation and worse knows no RELIGIOUS boundaries otherwise what explains it in an Animist, Christan and Muslim Africa.
Posted On 9/14/2009 9:24:37 AM
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Krishna Said:
Aakar Patel is a parasite who loves Pakistan but lives off of India and its heritage by writing insulting articles about Hinduism.
I am glad Gandhi was unmoved by the surroundings in Britain. As if the colonial Brits ever cared for anyone but exploitation of the colonies, creating artificial shortages around the world so as to fill the royal coffers as well as repression of the locals so as to promote their imperial agenda.
V.S. Naipul famously called as V.S Nightfall was the poodle of the colonialists who hated India and the other developing world. When does Naipul represent India when he was not an Indian? He was from Trinidad and he trashed that place. He was not from India and he trashed India early on. (The author leaves out the fact that Naipul in 2004 grudgingly reconciled with an India that was in resurgence.)
Iqbal's transformative Pakistan, a failed state, is visible for the whole world to see. Therein lays Iqbal’s legacy.
In the above article, Aakar Patel conveniently leaves out the damage done to India by the 1000 rule of Islamic violence or hostile ‘action’.
Posted On 9/12/2009 12:47:22 PM
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witan Said:
Dear Mr Patel, my hearty congratulations for an excellent, daring article. I have a lot to say on the matter, but restrict myself for the present for want of time and space just now. ♫ The root-cause of the problems you have pointed out is our granting the status of *scripture* to Geeta. While admitting that I am not a vedic scholar, I strongly feel that only our Vedas and Upanishads can be considered to be scriptures. Even Ramayanam and Mahabharatam are not scriptures but epics. One should not be misled into *mindlessly* drawing moral lessons from them. Gita itself is *believed* to be part of Mahabharata. How can part of an epic become bigger than the epic and become a scripture? Some experts are also of the opinion that Gita was added to Mahabharatam at a later date, and some even say that Gita was created to meet the challenge of Buddhism. As you have pointed out, Mr Patel, the 'teachings' of Gita run counter to those of Vedas. ♫ I am not condemning Gita or rejecting *all* its teachings, but only suggesting that we should use our own thinking power to assess their moral and ethical applicability, especially in specific contexts. At best, the "teachings" are only guidelines, not commandments. In any case, they cannot be *distorted* out of context to justify sinful or unconscionable actions. ♫ I stop here for the time being, for reasons already stated.
Posted On 9/12/2009 2:32:22 PM
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witan Said:
Adding to my comment of a few minutes ago: Kipling was a white supremacist and the originator of the concept of "White Man's Burden". Any reference to Kipling or drawing upon his 'authority' should be tempered by this fact.
Posted On 9/12/2009 2:45:02 PM
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ashok Said:
So Mr. Aaker Patel thinks that'Indians do not have feelings for the physical world.'Please note that the Europeans's feelings for the physical world has resulted in the extinction of rain forests in Africa and South america. All those great Banyan trees have become dining tables across Europe and Noth America. ASHOK
Posted On 9/12/2009 4:09:56 PM
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Rohit Said:
I do not think Aakar knows a fig about Indian history. Does he know who made the Iron Pillar in Delhi? Does he know the engineering that has gone behind say Konark Temple? Does he know zero which is his exact mental capacity to understand was given by whom? Does he know it didn't take us telescope or satellite to know that earth was round an it revolves around sun? Does he know it needs application of common sense to understand Bhagwad Gita? Does he know Parsis are living in the country of people who are inspired by Bhagwad Gita? The question that needs to be asked is how much money Church or Mosque has paid to folks like Naipaul and this Patel and how much engineering he has learnt by becoming Christian or Muslim?
Posted On 9/12/2009 5:29:16 PM
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Mayank Said:
There goes Aakar Patel with his anti Hindu diatribe again. Last time it was brahmin bania sucess which Aakar could not digest now it is Bhagwad Geeta's success in amalgamating indian cultural ethos which is irritating Mr. Patel. This is a completely flawed and amateurish interpretation of the most profound philosophy of all times. Bhadwad has to be lived to be understood. The last person I expect to know Bhagwad from is a thirty something journalist who quite evidently does not know a jack you know what. The west is slowly getting around to appreicate the message of advaita, Yoga, meditation and Bhagwad. Mr. Patel is a great grand intellectual child of Macaulay and Babar who continues living in the colonial past. Another amateurish hateful article like this and I am personally switching back to ET especially now that it is backed by Reuters.
Posted On 9/13/2009 2:45:54 PM
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SCAggarwal Said:
Mr. Akar Patel is a great author, writer and a great global intellectual.
Earlier I was aware that majority of the people of India are suffering from poverty, hunger, malnutrition, illitracy, various diseases like HIV Aids, diabetes. However, thanks to Mr. Patel for telling us in this article that India is the filthiest nation of the world. We,the Hindus of India are thankful for his other remarks and the advice of Mr. Akar Patel for telling us our problems. We, Indians, the Hindus assure you Mr. Patel that we shall try to solve our problems one by one. One Indian called Mahatma Gandhi with his a little knowledge about India and Indian culture went abroad and brought freedom for the nation. Now there are more enlightened Indians than Mahatma Gandhi who travel abroad and reside in foreign countries including UK but are unable to solve the problems of poverty, hunger etc except counting the number of poor. Kindly keep on writing and make us aware of our weaknesses. We are thankful to LiveMint also for telling us that there are problems like poverty which has no solution. We shall try to solve all our problems ourselves. But we do not expect Mr. AKAR PATEL and LiveMint to solve our problems because both of you perhaps do not belong to India and are not related to Indian culture or Hindu culture and both of you have taken birth in India only to criticise the India, Indians, Hindus, Hindu culture or Indian culture. Thanks for your inventions or discoveries that farmers, Patels, Narendra Modi, Bhopinder Singh Hooda etc in India are shudras. When your job is to hurt Hindus or Indians, what one can do? Go on writing. After all you are neither a Hindu nor an Indian. But for God's sake, spare Gita in your writings.
Posted On 9/13/2009 5:57:10 PM
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Ujjwal Said:
I feel that newspapers should avoid getting into realms which call for intense philosophical discussions and since the platform is not conducive for it.
A person's wisdom lies in his capacity to remain in areas of his relative strengths and express one's opinion whatever by they, from there. The moment he gets into areas where his own capacities are minimal, there is clear risk of exposing ones weakness and shallowness.
Its obvious that the writer has developed a great fascination for criticising aspects of the nation but this article
gives a clear impression of the weak understanding of the writer on several aspects.
Any careful reading of The Gita would reveal that had its philosophy of Karmayoga been a part and parcel of any
culture, it would have taken it places. In fact Gita elegantly expounds on the spirit at which work should be done
and how it can alleviate a person from a material state to a spiritual level.
Do all people who live in a filthy manner do it because they have read the Gita?
If immortality of the spirit is observed with serious reflection, that is the best way of understanding the universal equality of man and is the strongest argument against caste system. Did we ever as a society pay heed to that. Did Gita teach that a huge segment of population should be kept away from participation in their own professional and cognitive growth (exclusion of women from participation in professional activities in large parts of the country)
Gandhi's example of what he observed doesn't imply what he didn't observe. Does it?
Taking small portions of major books, texts and using them for justifying one's interpretation is one of the saddest ways of arguing and surely can't deserve a place in a noted newspaper like this one.
I wish we get better perspectives from the writer in future or a different writer who understands before he comments on anything.
Posted On 9/13/2009 5:57:57 PM
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shiva Said:
No one,not even chest thumping Hindu can define what is Hinduism.Aakr patel looks like bad joke.
So Aakar,who clearly with his selective quotes,opportunistic events seems like a person with the task of discredit Indian civilization,make hindus doubt their acenstors wisdon.These are typical missionary tactics.
If Aakar can read this.I am Hindu,but never read Gita fully.I am shaivite,never worshipped Rama or Krishna.I go to temple may b eonce a year.I am very proud of being torch bearer of Indian Civiliztion,very proud of Krishna and his reasoning.
Vedas put emphasis on TRUTH and Knowldege.Read Gayatri Mantra and its meaning,if you want to make serious start
Posted On 9/14/2009 10:44:51 AM
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BG Said:
The weeds actually are in the mind of Mr. Patel, which is spreading wildly while he is busy trying to impress people with his pretentious advice.
Mr Aakar, you would do well to clean up the weeds within you before you start professing your part-baked knowledge about nothing - neither the Vedas nor the Gita nor abt English literature. If you think you can get a name for yourself with this kind of inane articles not even worth of discussion in any circles, the weeds of self-promotion will overtake the whole of you.
I would like to thank Mint for featuring such pretentious authors, maybe its time I moved on from Mint.
Posted On 9/15/2009 10:24:46 AM
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vivek Said:
Naipaul's observation about Gandhi is pretty meaningless because, as Gahdhi himself mentions, another Gujerati writer who visited him in London did write travelogues. Actually there are plenty of travelogues of foreign countries in all vernacular languages which include descriptions of how things work- sometimes, as in the case of Soviet Russia- even when they manifestly did not work at all.
The Gita is a very funny piece of situation comedy. Arjuna who is descended from a bad smelling fisherwoman whose sons usurp the birth-right of the true heir is worried that women will loose their good character and miscegenation will occur if the war goes ahead. This is hilarious because this has already happened. The Gita begins when the blind King expresses incredulity that none of the warriors noticed they were about to desecrate the holy site of Kurukshetra. Sanjay shows that both Arjun and Duryodhana are affected at the sub conscious level. Duryodhana is struck by fear and goes to his Guru and makes some boastful claim about how his allies are longing to repay their debt to him with their own blood. Arjun's reaction is more humane. However, Krishna knows that Karna wants the war to go ahead as a vishodhana- a ritual cleansing- a sacrifice by which all the warriors can gain Heaven.
In showing his visvarupa, Krishna (by an argument he later makes) is actually slaying himself, so to speak- i.e. the Gita has a secret sub-text of the sacrifice of God for Man.
The greatness of Mbh and Gita is that they point out the importance of Probability and Game Theory for a proper conception of Justice. This is pretty modern- though not fully spelled out (probably coz it don't work).
The real problem with India arises not coz people don't know how to do things but that they want to run everything anyway. Indeed Backwardness is the strongest claim on power.
This is not Gita's message. However, since only ignorant people sermonise about it- no difference is made.
Posted On 9/15/2009 3:25:47 PM
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AJAY Said:
Dear Aakar, You need to have intellect to comprehend the subtlety of the Geeta. I request you to spend more time and comment. However ,I have a few points to make: 1) Lack of inventions by Indians: Yoga and spiritualism is the greatest contribution by India to world. Believe me no materialistic invention can match this. 2) I have spent quite a time in Europe and US. I have seen the sheer sorrow, lack of purpose and lifelessness of people there. Their beautiful cities turn into ghost towns .
By the way you would know that Indians (mostly follower of Geeta) are emerging most influential people in US and Europe.3) As far as Iqbal is concerned, you should know what their achievments are? 4) Krsna himself says that filthiness is characteristic of Tamsic people and cleanliness is for Satvic.
Cheers
AJ
Posted On 9/15/2009 7:49:58 PM
Re: Manish Said:
Dear Manish,
If Yoga and Spiritualism is the greatest contribution of Indians then I am ashamed to be Indian.
Did Indians invent the steam engine ? The Aeroplane ? The Train ? Calculus ? Car ?
I would like to know why. Good article Aakar.
Posted On 9/22/2009 4:25:53 PM
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AJAY Said:
Dear Aakar, You need to have intellect to comprehend the subtlety of the Geeta. I request you to spend more time and comment. However ,I have a few points to make: 1) Lack of inventions by Indians: Yoga and spiritualism is the greatest contribution by India to world. Believe me no materialistic invention can match this. 2) I have spent quite a time in Europe and US. I have seen the sheer sorrow, lack of purpose and lifelessness of people there. Their beautiful cities turn into ghost towns .
By the way you would know that Indians (mostly follower of Geeta) are emerging most influential people in US and Europe.3) As far as Iqbal is concerned, you should know what their achievments are? 4) Krsna himself says that filthiness is characteristic of Tamsic people and cleanliness is for Satvic.
Cheers
AJ
Posted On 9/15/2009 7:49:58 PM
Re: Incognito Said:
The Iron pillar in mehrauli that has withstood millenia of weather without rust without paint is testimony to materialistic achievement of indians. Apart from numerals, Calculus, even the diameter of earth was calculated by indians millenia back.
Indians had the most grammatically advanced language in the world that is even now inspiring computer programmers.
Posted On 10/18/2009 7:51:24 PM
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nirseek Said:
Gita does not say
"Work without expectation of reward"
Gita says
"Work with a good intention without clinging to the final result or reward"
It is asking everyone to enjoy the path of work by NOT worrying about the result every moment (which makes life miserable). It is suggesting to enjoy the path and not wait for the goal.
This Aakar guy definitely needs to be replaced with a reservation candidate!
Posted On 9/15/2009 11:00:09 PM
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S Said:
Very biased article with no research done on the Original Gita that the writer is criticizing! No attempt made to genuinely know and understand the message of Gita. Very cowardly attempt by the author to present his trash as an article. But then, not everybody is lucky enough to understand the message of the great scriptures in this birth.
Posted On 9/16/2009 1:44:39 AM
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Rony Said:
I cannot comment on the influence of Gita on how we Indians behave as I have not read Gita. However, I largely agree with Mr. Patel’s observations that we Indians generally are completely detached with the external world, leading to their lack of motivation and ability to innovate. I am not ashamed to say that I have recognized this behavioral trait in myself and any other fellow Indians, albeit after living in the US for a few years. I have come to believe that we, Indians, live in denial of our shortcomings. The fact that majority of the Indians haven’t travelled abroad or mingled with more progressive societies (defined in terms of economic development) contributes to the lack of understanding of our shortcomings. But what saddens me the most is the share aggressiveness that I see around in most Indians to protect/justify the status quo. What is this aggression for? This sense of denial is not going to help us. In a globalized world it is going to be more expensive, very soon.
Posted On 9/19/2009 10:17:12 PM
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Y Said:
Fantastic piece of writing Mr. Patel, absolutely fascinating. You can take the place of a modern-day Krishna. Fabulous, marvellous ! By the way, would love to read your views on other religious books as well... why not the Koran maybe ? Now come come sir, not fair... people of other religions also have a right to read your enchanting and enlightening views. Or are you a mite worried that if you do so, the reaction might be a little, shall we say, robust ?!! Be strong sir !! Eagerly awaiting your article on the afore-mentioned topic. So what if you get hounded out of Mumbai or require 24-hours police protection after that, the knowledge gained will be worth the sacrifice. Please do not disappoint.
Posted On 9/23/2009 12:23:52 AM
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Incognito Said:
Only when a person is spiriually oriented does indian culture and its philosophy become meaningful.
Just as a carnivores animal cannot digest grass, a person with inherent materialistic motives cannot understand indian culture. Whatever they feed off it, remains undigested and is discarded, often with condemnation. This is what has happened here.
Posted On 10/18/2009 7:43:02 PM
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rama Said:
I read only the 1st part of your article as I could not see the point in reading the whole. As lots of people have pointed, little knowldge is dangerous and also commenting on something where you are not an expert exposes your ignorance and you to riddicule. Please find a guru, sit at his/her feet and with his/her blessing, learn Gita. A starting point would be to read Swamiji Dayanada Saraswathis's book and his commentry on Bhagavath Gita.
Posted On 10/20/2009 6:18:38 AM
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Arvind Said:
Blaming all the woes of India-povery, filth, etc. on the Gita is quite silly.There are many causes such as our historical baggage. Hinduism though is responsible for stifling the potential of this country, through the evil caste system and our justification of every even through an unproved "karma" system. We need to become a more extroverted society, one that gives more attention to the physical world. This can be done only by placing value on merit, by removing all quotas that exist in this country, and letting the fine minds of our country find an outlet for their potential here, rather than forcing them to go abroad. The transformation of india from a spiritual to a material society will not come until our citizens are in a state to think and analyze for themselves and throw off the yoke of "culture" that has been holding us back for centuries. Any claim of indians inventing "this and that" millenia ago hardly proves a point except that we can invent things, but the question should be- are we inventing enough compared to the rest of the world in modern times? Are our citizens currently enjoying the same standards that people elsewhere are enjoying? If the answer is NO, then we need to introspect before defending our culture and past that has brought us to where we are. Our emphasis should be on creating an educational culture that values creativity rather than mindless rote. Independent thought should characterize the country. Our sexual moral standards should be set loose for improving society's morale(face it - we are all highly sexual creatures, but consensually we are a very prudish society), but tightened as far as corruption,cleanliness is concerned. Just being open-minded, and learning from others is probably the best thing we can do. Had we done so in the past, India would have kept up technologically & never suffered foreign rule in the first place.I hope one day we will be an open-minded and liberal country.
Posted On 10/28/2009 8:45:52 AM
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Sid Said:
After reading your article Mr. Patel, I realized that not every one who can write should be read. Your analysis of Gita is so stupid and myopic that even Wendy Doniger would be horrified. So Gita should be left to Yogis to follow, common/ordinary folks should be given a framework where they will be asked to follow something like a Church/Mosque and will be directed how to follow Dharma instead of getting it from the source. Smart thinking !!!! Just because your education turned you so blind that you can not read Gita entirely does not mean that other Hindus would be enable to read/understand Gita!!
Posted On 11/8/2009 7:09:38 AM
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Ajay Said:
FINALLY SOME REAL INTROSPECTION FROM AN INDIAN.. ANY CULTURE IS DEFINED BY THE DRIVING FUNDAMENTALS OF BELIEFS. TO INDIA WHICH IS MAJORITY HINDU, THE FOUNDATION AND THE FUNDAMENTALS ARE DERIVED FROM THE GITA AND THE AUTHOR VERY CLEARLY, LUCIDLY AND BOLDLY HAD TAKEN THE STEP TO SHOW WITHOUT ANY AMBIGUITY THE ONE STARK AND TRUE ANSWER TO THE QUESTIONS THAT EVERY THINKING INDIAN ASKS OF HIMSELF WHEN THEY GO ABROAD. KUDOS TO LIVEMINT.COM FOR HAVING PUBLISHED THIS ARTICLE AND MORE LIKE THESE PLEASE.. THANK YOU!
Posted On 11/18/2009 1:03:27 AM
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