No fiddling with Article 370: Mehbooba Mufti

New Delhi: For the president of People’s Democratic Party (PDP), Mehbooba Mufti, the idea of Jammu and Kashmir being the integral part of India has to go beyond the ownership of land. “We need to own, acknowledge the pain, the sufferings of people of Kashmir,” she said. She was in Delhi to attend the Hindustan Times Leadership Summit.

Edited excerpts from an interview:

As your father (Mufti Mohammad Sayeed) indicated, you may be set to create history soon by becoming the first woman chief minister of Jammu and Kashmir. Is it going to happen sooner than later?

In the first place, gender should have nothing to do with your ability, and performance. We are beyond that. Secondly, it is something I don’t think about too much. Somehow this question really upsets me, when it’s going to happen, how it’s going to happen... I don’t want to think about it. I would not like to discuss about.

You have been working in the valley (Kashmir) for long and launched Ladli Beti scheme to provide social assistance to girl child. In general, when one looks at Kashmir, one doesn’t think of female foeticide. Why is the issue close to you?

Women are the first and worst sufferers of any kind of conflict. Unfortunately, like in the other parts of the country, the ratio between male and female has gone down drastically in Jammu and Kashmir, also. So we thought why not do something which gives incentives to below poverty line families who have a girl child.

Once she grows up, she will have ₹ 6.5 lakh and not only that, we are also looking to provide good education to girls when they reach the age of 3 years. Just depositing money in her account may not be enough, so give her good education, good skills, and she is empowered enough to carry on.

You recently said in Parliament, “To those who ask (Indian Muslims) to go to Pakistan, I want to say that the nation owns us and we own the nation.” How do you reconcile to this contradiction between the BJP (Bharatiya Janata Party) and the PDP while in power in the J&K?

The Bihar election has already done a great job.

You supported the grand alliance or the BJP?

It’s not about that because there are certain things which are larger than the elections, it’s the country. And India, if you ask me to pick a couple of things, Hinduism is for tolerance, Islam is for equality, from Christians, it’s compassion and charity.

So, in a country, tolerance is the strength of the country. These so-called fringe elements... what is happening in Syria, in Afghanistan, those are also fringe elements, who are misusing the name of Islam. So, in our country, there are fringe elements who are misusing the name of Hinduism. And they also compare it with nationalism and it is worse.

But when ministers say ‘go to Pakistan’, ministers are not fringe elements.

I think the mentality is the same. It’s not about whether you are someone on the road, it’s the thought process that counts.

I am sorry to say but when we say democracy is the strength of this country... India is thriving because of the chaos and noise of democracy.

People have shown what they want. Majority of the people in our country, be it Muslims, Hindus, Sikh or Christians, they are not bothered because they are not getting two square meals in a day, they are facing price rise, there are no onions to eat, and these people (fringe elements) ask which meat they want to eat? It’s not done. It’s not acceptable.

Has this issue ever been raised within your alliance because in Kashmir specifically, that was an issue—a trucker was killed in Kashmir. Do you think the Prime Minister should have made a statement?

We took action, we booked the culprits under Section 302 for murder... That is what counts. Statements are fine but strong action on the ground counts; that we did.

The radicalisation of youth in Kashmir has become a trend, militants taking selfies with guns. Is this something that the state government is taking seriously? Some say in 10 years you can lose the valley if you keep ignoring this.

As far as radicalisation or ISIS (Islamic State) whatever people are talking about, but Kashmiriyat, the Sufi Islam that we practise in Kashmir, that is answer to everything because people of Kashmir have never taken diktats, acid was thrown on women, do hijab, wear this cloth, not to wear jeans, don’t send your girls to schools, but the people left the valley to educate their children outside but they didn’t listen to diktats.

As far as ISIS is concerned, it sounds very ridiculous, some guys who had taken up those ISIS flag sometime back, when they were arrested, none of them really knew what it is was about. It was just to catch attention.

As I said earlier also, fortunately, we have been able to keep human rights violation to the minimum.

Whatever is possible, not that it is not happening. So the other side doesn’t have much to say. So, it is very easy to prop up a Pakistani flag, now it has become old-fashioned so ISIS flag, as far as I am concerned I don’t think in Islam, the Sufi culture that we have in Kashmir... ISIS is totally against the very basis of Islam.

ISIS people, what are they doing? What are they talking about? They are destroying everything that Islam holds dear. So, I don’t think Kashmiris will ever follow what ISIS stands for, they stand for murder, rapes, plundering, how can that be Islam? Islam is totally antithesis of what they are doing. It can’t be.

The number of young Kashmiri cricketers, IAS officers, all need to be celebrated but it’s being ignored sometimes. In your constituency [Anantnag] recently, when a militant was killed by armed forces, thousand turned up for the funeral. When these scenes are shown or reported, you do get a sense of uneasiness. There are IB reports, the former national security advisor saying there is something going on.

It is fine to be cautious, it is important. But one of the drawbacks, one of the reasons that we have the Kashmir problem is because there was dissent from the very beginning in 1947, a small dissent.

We have been looking at Kashmir through the prism of security. So, everything becomes a security issue. So, we need to be more humane, we need to be cautious, there are no two opinions about it, we need to be cautious, but at the same time not be so over-obsessed by security. We need to go beyond.

It is not about Jammu and Kashmir government or central government, but it’s about the whole nation. They need to invest in Kashmir’s peace. The idea of Jammu and Kashmir being an integral part of India has to go beyond the ownership of land.

You need to own, acknowledge the pain, the sufferings, the other things that are going on. You talk about so many people in the funeral, did any channel take the trouble to show that there were 25,000 people on 15 August this year, nobody bothered because you don’t bother to show that Indian flags are flying somewhere, people are coming for 15 August.

We didn’t allow private media because we thought may be one of the journalists will give a Pakistani flag to someone or an ISIS flag. This is what is happening. I feel that the media also needs to examine, review, the negative image being projected at times undermines the dignity of Kashmiris. They have become suspects everywhere.

Many politicians in the last two days of HT Summit, except the Prime Minister, are second generation or third generation politicians. The Prime Minister in his campaign spoke very strongly against dynasty and at that time, he referred to Abdullahs and he said that this is what has ruined the state of Jammu and Kashmir. How do you justify that as a second generation politician?

I was not handed over anything on a silver platter. I had to work very hard. I joined politics, fought my elections because my father could not find a candidate, everybody was too scared when I fought my first election. My father was not chief minister at that time, he was nowhere, so I have struggled hard, I have not taken a ministry now whether it was in the UPA (United progressive Alliance) or otherwise. I am more comfortable in connecting with people. I don’t think you can compare me with Abdullahs, or others because Omar was handed over everything when his father was chief minister, he didn’t have to struggle the way I had to struggle, similarly my father had to struggle, he didn’t have a father like Sheikh Abdullah who brought Farooq (Abdullah) from London and asked him to take care of the sultanate.

In fact, when I fought the 1996 election, being Mufti Mohammad Sayeed’s daughter, it has its own plus and minus, so I told my father please don’t come for campaigning with me... I told him to let me do it on my own. People hold my father in very high esteem, but what was amazing was that nobody looked at me as a woman, I was never made aware of the fact that I am a woman. So, that is why I say Kashmiris are more emancipated as Muslims, more moderate, they are more aware, as compared to other part of the country or in the world.

It’s been over a year with BJP-PDP government, there was a perception that Mufti Mohammad Sayeed was keen on the alliance and you were not convinced of it. When you look back at it, what do you think has been the biggest achievement of the alliance, and the biggest failure?

I think my father has taken a huge decision, he has gone against the tide. It happened in 1947 when the whole country got divided on communal lines, Hindu states went one way and Muslim states went other way and Jammu and Kashmir was the only state which took something which was totally, the people were for that, the leadership was there for aligning with democratic, secular India, so that was one time.

And again this time, after the election results came, where the BJP got majority in Jammu and PDP won good number of seats in the Valley (Kashmir), so we could have gone with the Congress, we could have gone with National Conference, if we just wanted to cobble up a majority but my father took this chance because he feels that when we say resolution of Kashmir problem, we need to connect between ourselves, we are disconnected, Jammu goes one way, Ladakh goes the other way and Kashmir goes on yet another way. And also, we need to respect the mandate of the people.

Thirdly, whatever my father had started during Vajpayee’s time, and then it was taken forward by Manmohan Singh till my father was chief minister, everything has been put in back-burner. So, we think Modi has come with such a huge mandate and he has been often saying that he wants to follow Vajpayee’s policy on J&K and then they have a good majority... I think with the passage of time he (Modi) is coming around, that’s why we are seeing Sushma Swaraj going to Pakistan.

I think it takes you time, even when I joined politics, when you are made head of the family you start seeing other problems... I think it will take them time... there is no alternative to Vajpayee’s policy of reaching out to the people of Jammu and Kashmir... it is not about giving Kashmir to anybody it is not possible.

What is the state government doing for the return of Kashmiri pandits?

When my father became chief minister in 2002, he had started this process in which we had localities in Sheikhpura, Batan and many other places, but not much was done about it. He has been going to these places, they didn’t have water connection, roads. We are very serious about it. But also you (Kashmiri pandits) will have to be involved, you should start visiting and have a feel of the place. We are giving 50% of the flats to pandits and the remaining to Sikhs, Muslims... We want everybody to live together.

People are suffering in Kashmir because of Article 370, what are your thought about abolishing it?

It was the first thing on the agenda, as far as Article 370 is concerned, no fiddling with it. But having said that, we should not forget that Jammu and Kashmir is a unique state, its history, its geopolitical advantage, it’s very different from any other state. If Kashmiris chose wisely to be part of a secular, democratic India, they wanted something in return. Hindu states went with India, Muslim states went to Pakistan, it was an ordinary decision. We did something out of ordinary, we did something against the tide... we need to be treated specially, differently. We are happy that we have done that, we have acceded to a country which gives us a special position.

If you give someone something, to snatch it away slowly is stealing. It is dishonest. Article 370 only strengthens the bond with India.

Cricket is an issue. The government will not clear India and Pakistan playing cricket in any third country. Do you think they should?

I don’t understand...when there was tension at the border, all these retired general from this side and that side were talking but we were still importing onions from Wagah border, nobody had a problem then, so I don’t know... Nobody said we should not import onions from Pakistan because it was cheaper and we needed it. So, I think we need to be more wholesome and more accommodative when it comes to these things. Cricket is after all a game, and they are your neighbours and we are their neighbours... because if you really want to deal with terrorism...today we see Russia and Americans fight on opposite sides and I don’t think they will be able to deal with terrorism similarly if we want to deal with terrorism, there should be cooperation between India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Bangladesh and many other countries. There, we need to have some kind of understanding because Pakistan is also facing a worse kind of terrorism, we just can’t get into this whether a singer will be allowed or not. This is ridiculous.

Some leaders of your party want the alliance between BJP-PDP to end. Don’t you think it is eating into the PDP stronghold?

When my father took this decision, he didn’t think of what is going to happen politically. I think he thought more about the new generations of Jammu and Kashmir, he thought more about the country, more about the people. He feels he will be able to play a positive role at this point of time with BJP at the helm of affairs to bridge the gap between Jammu and Kashmir, to take the process started by Atal Bihari Vajpayee of opening up the roads, to its logical conclusion. He is attempting to do it; whether he is successful or not is a different thing. We were offered unconditional support from the Congress and the National Conference... if you want to do something, you want power for the heck of power, you want to have a nice time, and tell people that there is a BJP government in Delhi and we have an alliance with Congress but if you really intend to do something, then you know this is the only way. If this is successful, then it will be success for the whole country.

What will be your priority when you become chief minister?

I don’t think my father will leave anything for me to do. He is doing everything himself. But leaving aside whether I am there or not, we must do two-three things. First, whenever we want to plan something about Jammu and Kashmir we have to think about people, people who come to vote, inspite of so many things, we need to think what they want, what their needs are, but when I see debates on television, it is only about people in Kashmir for separatism or Pakistan. That is the first thing that has to change.

When you think of Kashmir, think of people who are in mainstream, who have hope from India. During UPA-I, we had five working groups under prime minister who have come up with excellent recommendations, people from the BJP, Congress, PDP, NC, everybody has signed, be it about opening new routes, be it evacuation of land with the army which is unauthorised, be it about governance, they are best confidence-building measures, we have worked very hard, we had so many meetings with prime minister.

You say ISIS is against the basic principle of Islam; why are more and more younger Muslims getting attracted to ISIS?

This is not Islam.. what was started by the Americans in Afghanistan, the goose has come home to roost... there are some elements among Muslims who have some problem but with Iraq, Afghanistan and other turmoil, there is a general feeling of victimhood which the ISIS is playing... they post pictures of Syrian kids, they post pictures of Palestinians getting killed here and there they try to provoke, they want to convey that people are taking lands of Muslims so that Muslims are pushed to the wall and then their constituency will increase. Even in Kashmir, we need to expand the constituency which is with us...Indian Muslims are something to be saluted, they didn’t take part in militancy in Jammu and Kashmir, people came from many places but no Indians...we should not get influenced by ISIS that we start suspecting every Muslim because that will be furthering their cause. They will be alienated, that is what they want.